Sunday, February 27, 2011

Why I Choose Judaism


First of all Judaism makes more sense than atheism.

Second of all, Orthodox Jews are on the average happier than atheists. (The sadness of atheists is understandable. Atheism means that after all the pain and disappointments of the typical life, one loses everything forever at death. Judaism, on the contrary, teaches that death is merely the beginning of eternal paradise.)

Thirdly, Orthodox Jews are on the average nicer people than atheists.

It's an obvious choice, except for one thing - Orthodox Judaism is much harder than atheism. It requires a high level of sacrifice and self discipline. It may be in fact the world's most burdensome religion.

On the other hand, atheism requires nothing. (This is famously explained by Fyodor Dostoyevsky who in The Brothers Karamazov Chapter VI wrote "Ivan Fyodorovitch added in parenthesis that the whole natural law lies in that faith, and that if you were to destroy in mankind the belief in immortality, not only love but every living force maintaining the life of the world would at once be dried up. Moreover, nothing then would be immoral, everything would be lawful, even cannibalism. That's not all. He ended by asserting that for every individual, like ourselves, who does not believe in God or immortality, the moral law of nature must immediately be changed into the exact contrary of the former religious law, and that egoism, even to crime, must become not only lawful but even recognized as the inevitable, the most rational, even honorable outcome of his position." This is often paraphrased as "If God does not exist, everything is permitted.")

We know that given unlimited access to food, most adults will not control their eating even though they know that excessive food is making them ugly and will probably make them eventually very sick. We also know that few adults bother to exercise even 30 minutes a day although they know that it will make them look and feel better. We know that about one in five Americans smoke even though it makes them smell badly and will probably make them very sick.

Therefore, considering human nature, how much chance does Judaism have compared to atheism, when atheism is so much easier? Laziness, lust, peer pressure, etc are much more important decision making factors for most people than any long term benefits - unless you are highly disciplined and very honest.

In that case: Welcome!

48 comments:

Anonymous said...

>>jewish philosopher said...
My sweet onion, my posts are always of mind blowing importance.

One of the 13 principles of faith is:

I believe with perfect faith that G-d rewards those who keep His commandments, and punishes those who transgress Him.

http://www.ou.org/torah/rambam.htm<<<


You know who else has the same perfect faith? And inspires and instills the same perfect faith in his flock?
The Pope. So why should his perfect faith be any less all-encompassing and valid than yours? Of course it can't because its an unfalsifiable spiritual intangible.
If your faith were perfect, by definition, all Catholics should have already converted to chareidism. Since they havn't, it rings true that your faith is not perfect.
And the corolary to that is that neither of your faiths are perfect. Indeed they are nothing more than a sham; a convenient from of delusory mind control.

Abe said...

<>

Its only a big problem for people like you who have delusionary perfect faith.


For us free-thinkers, we just laugh at your dopey manifestos that on avarage, orthodox jews are happier than atheists ( I suppose that might be true if your congregants drink the same kool-aide that brought the demise of Jim Jones and his flock).
Or your other logicaly deficient rants.
As for Orthodox Judaism being harder than Atheism, I would say the same thing holds true about perfect-faith christian snake handlers, who take up serpents in their worship of the lord. But, they have a much higher level of sacrifice than chareidism. Who's religion is more demanding? I mean all those myriad dopey, burdensome rituals and idiotic halachic abnegations are nothing compared to sacrificing your life for god via venomous serpents.
Yes, we atheists agree that chareidism requires a high level of sacrifice and self discipline. However if it results in an asinine embrace of mindless religion, well, I wouldn't embrace yours any more than I would pick up a rattle snake.

nc said...

Your forgetting one basic fact.

As the world has gotten more "atheistic", the average life expectancy has gotten longer (even factoring in the wars), people are more prosperous, more babies and mothers survive birth, and in general, a living person is less likely to die a violent death or illness.

I know of course that correlation is not necessarily causation, but I think this fact does pour cold water on your religion=betterment of man hypothesis.

And, BTW, orthodoxy does not protect from obesity or other eating disorders;

http://www.ou.org/index.php/jewish_action/article/38224/

http://www.drsharma.ca/religious-orthodoxy-does-not-protect-against-disordered-eating.html

http://www.bhol.co.il/article.aspx?id=21822&cat=9&scat=11

One could also argue, that certain behaviors, even perhaps conferring some benefit to the individual, are harmful for society. I think religion is such a phenomenon.

I see this experiment played out in Israel, where an ever-increasing ultra orthodox population becomes more influential, while having a largely harmful impact politically, economically and educationally. As long as the orthodox are kept powerless, but free to do their own thing, are they prevented from doing harm.

In the US you are a tiny minority, and being among the goyim you have to behave yourselves. You can't get by with the bullshit that the ultra orthodox do in Israel.

jewish philosopher said...

"So why should his perfect faith be any less all-encompassing and valid than yours?"

I think I've explained that.

http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2011/01/does-ezra-jesus.html

"For us free-thinkers, we just laugh at your dopey manifestos that on avarage, orthodox jews are happier than atheists"

I know you do as I've explained here.

http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2011/01/after-five-years-why-do-i-blog.html

And you will fully suffer the consequences of your bad choices.

"Jim Jones"

He was an atheist also, by the way.

http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/AboutJonestown/Tapes/Tapes/TapeTranscripts/Q622.html

"As the world has gotten more "atheistic", the average life expectancy has gotten longer (even factoring in the wars), people are more prosperous, more babies and mothers survive birth, and in general, a living person is less likely to die a violent death or illness."

Well, the story isn't over yet. Don't forget global warming.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming#Attributed_and_expected_effects

Additionally, every primarily atheistic society has either been very violent (Maoist China, Stalinst Russia) or had a birth rate which is below replacement level (Japan, Sweden). No atheistic society has ever been viable and basically peaceful.

"I see this experiment played out in Israel, where an ever-increasing ultra orthodox population becomes more influential, while having a largely harmful impact politically, economically and educationally."

Unfortunately, the so called state of Israel seems to have been pretty much doomed at birth and that's not an orthodox problem.

http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2009/10/israel-holocaust-20.html

Had the atheist Zionist saviors never shown up the Old Yishuv would have continued living peacefully side by side with their Muslim neighbors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Yishuv

"And, BTW, orthodoxy does not protect from obesity or other eating disorders;"

At least among my neighbors, about 3% smoke and few are obese.

NC said...

JP, I respect your or anybody else's decision to be religious or orthodox as a rational choice.

However, your glib prescription of Judaism for health and happiness just does not fit with reality.

"Happiness" is a complex phenomenon. I'm sure the Dalai Lama is happy, but I don't think everybody should become a Buddhist.

"Had the atheist Zionist saviors never shown up the Old Yishuv would have continued living peacefully side by side with their Muslim neighbors."

Yea, I'm sure those impoverished, sick and powerless Jews were real well off. I'm sure they were really happy, living with malaria, TB and Arab mobs. And I'm sure they'd be even happier now living inside a jihadi state, who would be treating them like princes. Right.

"No atheistic society has ever been viable..."
You seem to be predicting something I don't know about. Has Japan or Sweden disappeared?

JP, basically most of the Western world is atheist or at least highly secular, including the US. So what nirvana are you contrasting these countries to? Which society? Does it exist or has it ever existed?

jewish philosopher said...

"However, your glib prescription of Judaism for health and happiness just does not fit with reality."

Straw man time again. 

I make here exactly three claims: Jews are more rational, more happy and nicer on the average than atheists and I stand behind that.

"Yea, I'm sure those impoverished, sick and powerless Jews were real well off. I'm sure they were really happy, living with malaria, TB and Arab mobs. And I'm sure they'd be even happier now living inside a jihadi state, who would be treating them like princes. Right. "

Well, if you really want to go there, let's do a thought experiment. Imagine that Herzl and his fellow crackpots would never have been born. Let's say jews would have heeded the rabbis and never considered armed struggle. How would the world be different today? 

The Jewish community in Palestine would probably be small and intensely orthodox and pretty safe. Most middle eastern countries would also harbor large, fairly secure, observant and successful Jewish communities, as they had for thousands of years. The Jewish communities in Europe and the US would be bigger. Relations between the US and Islamic countries would A LOT better.

I don't see much wrong with this picture.

" Has Japan or Sweden disappeared?"

They will. Here are the stats

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.TFRT.IN?cid=GPD_11

Replacement level is about 2.1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_fertility_rate#Replacement_rates

Anonymous said...

I understand that the sucie rate in Japan and Sweden is very high. Same thing goes in atheistic countries like North Korea. This would seem to indicate that people in these countries are not very happy.

Now, another advantage of being religious is that religiosu people are significantly more altruistic, charitable, and generous that the non-religious. Orthodox JEws especially so.

And numerous studoes have shown that religious people in general tend to have more stable lives, less mental illness, self destructive behaviors etc.

Abe said...

"For us free-thinkers, we just laugh at your dopey manifestos that on avarage, orthodox jews are happier than atheists"

I know you do as I've explained here. http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2011/01/does-ezra-jesus.html


************

You should have utilzed an expansive treatise on cauliflower recipes. It would have made only a slightly more absurd explaination.

**And you will fully suffer the consequences of your bad choices.**

Ha Ha Ha,

I still havn't stopped laughing.

**Jim Jones
He was an atheist also, by the way.**
Yes, isn't ironic that you try to emulate an insane atheist?

jewish philosopher said...

"Ha Ha Ha," 

Like Gaddafi.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/02/2011225165641323716.html

Don't  worry Abe, be happy. It's all good.

nc said...

So which country, present or past, was "viable" and "non violent"? I would be eager to get a passport.

jewish philosopher said...

We don't right now have a sovereign nation (neither do atheists, unless you count North Korea), we have an archipelago, a chain of little islands of civilization in a sea of barbarism. The surrounding natives have copied us to varying degrees, some have even joined us and some citizens of our archipelago sadly go native and join join the barbarians.

To find the island nearest you, this might be a good place to start.

http://www.aish.com/ai/

NC said...

So you are saying, JP, that there has never actually been a society like the one you are advocating.

This is the difference between small and large scale entities. It may seem to you quaint and nice to have a little ultra-orthodox neighborhood and shteibel. But you can't actually run a country or a whole society like that. Perhaps this shows that ultra-orthodox Judaism is not really viable on a large scale, either.

jewish philosopher said...

The orthodox community consists of about two million people, and it more or less has for a few thousand years, which I think qualifies as a community.

http://www.jcpa.org/dje/articles2/demographics.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jewish_population_comparisons

As far as sovereignty goes, in the long run 2 million people basically isn't enough, especially if you don't have a physical island or some other natural defenses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_in_2005

Nevertheless, in early modern times, central European Jews seemed to have had a more or less autonomous, internal democratic government.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Four_Lands

Regarding why we aren't bigger, that's because it's just too hard. I think it can be realistically estimated that no more than one percent of adult americans lead a reasonably cautious, safe, healthy lifestyle, even though no one disputes the benefits.

Anonymous said...

NC:

Orthodox Jews had ran two independent countries in Biblical times. They lasted longer than the United States so far. And then there was anothert indedenpendent country run bythe Orthodox Jewish Chashmonoin. That ended when the Saducess got involved. Then there was the Kazars.

Nathan

NC said...

"Regarding why we aren't bigger, that's because it's just too hard."

I would think it is rather hard to be a Muslim as well. Davening 5 times a day. Dietary abstinence. Fasting for month. Jihad. And being a Muslim woman is even harder. etc etc. The word Islam means "submission". Sounds petty tough. That doesn't seem to correlate with their numbers of over a billion.

I also think that people get used to anything. So what can be described as "hard" to an outsider is really just another lifestyle that one gets accustomed to after a while, or if you grow up with it, you know nothing else.

Having said all of that, I am a Jew and I don't want to be anything else. We have a rich tradition and culture to be proud of. And being Jewish has its benefits, depending on where and when you're living.

jewish philosopher said...

Islam appeals to macho men and women who love them, which apparently is quite a few people. Islam likes violence, it's not ashamed of it. Many people apparently find that quite appealing.

This is perhaps putting too fine a point on it, however if you think about it, being a Nazi wasn't easy either. Waffen SS training was tough and probably few original members survived the war. Nevertheless, there seemed to be no shortage of volunteers in the early years.

http://waffen-ss.com/page.php?page=100

http://www.amazon.com/Waffen-Ss-Hitlers-Elite-1939-45/dp/0801492750/

Plus, Muslim guys can openly date other women even while married.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy#Islam

(Bill Clinton, Tiger Woods, philandering husbands everywhere, take note.)

I think therefore Islam has more to do with giving into human nature rather than conquering it.

Also, I think that Islam was actually almost dying out until Saudi Arabia among others hit the lottery with the oil thing and began pouring untold trillions of dollars into to Islamic institutions (and terrorist organizations) worldwide.

jewish philosopher said...

Just a few interesting stats:

45.3 million Americans belong to health clubs.

http://www.numberof.net/number-of-gym-memberships-in-the-us/

Of those, 20% work out three times a week, or in other words 9 million.

source: Fitness for Dummies 2 edition page 247

http://www.amazon.com/Fitness-Dummies-Suzanne-Schlosberg/dp/0764551671

The total US population over age 20 is about 220 million.

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2011/tables/11s0007.pdf

Therefore, roughly 4% of Americans get a reasonable amount of exercise.

Of those, many smoke, use illegal steroids or other illegal drugs, drink excessively, are overweight, underweight, engage in unsafe sex, etc.

I think we can guess that not more that a couple of percent of American adults lead a reasonably healthy lifestyle.

ksil said...

I am glad you didnt say that you choose judaism becasue IT IS TRUE!!! that would just simply be a lie!!

LOL


you sound like an orthopraxer, maybe there is hope for you after all.

jewish philosopher said...

Too bad you didn't click on the first link in this post.

http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2006/12/truth-of-judaism.html

jewish philosopher said...

Getting back to Islam, the only tough parts to me sound like the Fajr daily prayer which must be recited from the beginning of dawn to sunrise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fajr

That might be kind of inconvenient since with modern artificial lighting people tend to go to bed late. Apparently though it's just five minutes and then you can go back to bed.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_long_dows_a_muslim_prayer_last_for

Besides that there's the month long annual fast of Ramadan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramadan#Fasting

Although if you don't work days, you can sleep most of the day and eat at night. I think this is common in Saudi Arabian cities where many Saudis don't work but live from oil revenues.

NC said...

Each of your "hardships" can be written off, too.

jewish philosopher said...

Paul apparently considered the Torah so difficult that he called it a curse:

Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians+3&version=NIV

Muslims believe that Islam is deliberately designed to be easy.

http://www.harunyahya.com/books/faith/merciful/merciful_02i.php

And again Muslims get fringe benefits such a license to kill and philander plus they happen to have most of the world's oil. Not so Jews.

When we consider that probably not more that a couple of percent of American adults lead a reasonably healthy lifestyle, in spite of the universally accepted benefits, I think it's obvious why few embrace Orthodox Judaism, in spite of the obvious truth.

Bill said...

Dear Mr Stein:

I recently discovered your fascinating website and wish to compliment you thereon. I would wish to preface by providing some biographical information.I am an American Negro. I was reared as a Baptist. I underwent conversion to Judaism during college in the late 1970's under the auspicies of a conservative rabbi. A subsequent conversion superintended by a Chabad rabbi took place in 1990.

Your post on Judaism and discipline was intriquing. Albeit, I concur in your position, I would respectfully dissent from some points. Torah observant Jews exhibit a high degree of self-control, but it is my experience that the self regulation is selective. I have attended shuls wherein it is virtually impossible to hear the recitation of the Torah or the repetition of the Amidah in consequence of the incessant conversation. A further example is the phenomenon of lashon hara, which according to the Chafetz Chaim is the single transgression which delays the commencement of the ultimate Redemption. Also, what of sinas chinam? Perhaps few frum yidden abuse alcohol or narcotics, but quite a number unfortunately harbor unjustified resentments and jealousies of their fellow Jews. The Aibishter should aid all of us to vanquish these afflictions.

Also, you referred to Yossi in Hella Winston's book. It is tragic that Yossi relinquished Frumkeit. However, is it unfortunate that he did not attain the American Dream? I do not denigrate material success. My parents of blessed memory were proletarians and esteemed education and wished my sister and myself to advance. With HaShem's succor, I was able to complete college and law school. However, I do not feel that the realization of the American dream is the appropriate benchmark of success for a frum yid. Countless Jews discontinued their observance in order to facilitate the pursuit of the dream. They perceived Judaism as an impediment. We now realize that one can excel in both arenas and we should respect and admire those who do so, but for a Torah observant jew the only legitimate measurement of success is achievement in Yiddishkeit. By employing the American Dream formula, luminaries such as the Chazon Ish and the Satmar Rav would be characterized as dismal failures.

Lommer deleben Moshiach.
Bill
billmc@injurylawyer.com

jewish philosopher said...

Thank you for commenting; it's interesting meeting you.

I believe that in the areas of violent crime, sexual crimes and substance abuse orthodox jews are far better than average Americans. I also think that there is a nicer, kinder social atmosphere in the orthodox communities. Beyond that, I would be hesitant to make any claims.

What I've noticed is that orthodox Jews who convert to atheism seem to be failures professionally and in relatiinships as well. In other words, these are not basically successful people who decided that judaism is bad. These are very troubled, flawed people who will end up accomplishing little if anything in life in any way.

tommy said...

Bill,

Your post on Judaism and discipline was intriquing. Albeit, I concur in your position, I would respectfully dissent from some points. Torah observant Jews exhibit a high degree of self-control, but it is my experience that the self regulation is selective.

A big part of the problem is that halakha is so cumbersome and is subject to so many debates that nobody seems to apply too much of it and, as I previously stated, what is observed is of little moral consequence to the rest of the world unless you are already prepared to accept that Jews supernaturally impact the world by observing superstitions. You can go to sites like theyeshivaworld.com and see how argumentative Jews of even the same stripe become over every trivial issue. The folks at that and other popular Hasidic sites don't strike me as particularly upright either. Your average poster seems to be exceptionally haughty, self-absorbed, condescending, and censorious. They seem to be more interested in what is permissible under halakha than in what is morally attainable. Don't even get me started on their misanthropic attitudes toward non-Jews. They don't even remotely resemble the Abe or Sarah of their own traditions and seem to have little interest in even trying to become a little more like them. They're satisfied with simply patting themselves on the backs for having saints as their ancestors. No people ever worked harder at being morally lazy than Orthodox Jews.

All things being equal, a less cumbersome code that produces the best moral behavior is superior to a more cumbersome religion that produces less moral behavior. Jews might actually be better if they could find a way to streamline their religion and emphasize the most important aspects of their faith. That will never happen because Jews are too contentious to reach consensus.

jewish philosopher said...

"Jews might actually be better if they could find a way to streamline their religion and emphasize the most important aspects of their faith."

Been there, done that. It's called Christianity. Have Christians, historically or presently, been models of kindness, peacefulness, honesty, sobriety and chastity? Not really so much.

NC said...

JP, I think that you will find that your are one of the billions of religious people in the world who are happy with their own choice of religion and think that it is better than all others.

And I'm sure that their blogs are as convincing to themselves as yours is to you.

Welcome to that club.

jewish philosopher said...

Maybe. Atheism, however, is depressing. The atheist believes that after all the pain and disappointment of a typical life, whatever little he has will be lost forever at death. Prior to age 40, atheism may be exciting. You can do anything you want to and it's ok, no guilt. After age 40, depressing.

I write more here.

http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2010/01/aging-atheist.html

NC said...

JP, I think it really depends on the spin you give it, like anything else. I'll bet that the Taliban can make a case for their holy and wonderful lives. As far as atheists, you could say it like this:

"We live only once, but there is nothing to fear from death-- it is like returning to the state before we were born. We should make the best of our lives, loving and living to its fullest. Enjoy each moment with our loved ones. We all experience pain, and we should try to learn from our pain, as well as our mistakes."

BTW, if the afterlife is a certainty for you, how do you know it won't be hell? And if you don't know, how does this certainty console you after the hardships of life?

I've met many religious and non-religious people who face hardship in their lives, and both groups deal with it according to the individual's personality. Some with more anxiety, some with depression, some with acceptance and determination to go on. Granted, faith and community support does help.

tommy said...

Been there, done that. It's called Christianity. Have Christians, historically or presently, been models of kindness, peacefulness, honesty, sobriety and chastity? Not really so much.

This is the argument of moral superiority from numerical inferiority. It could be pointed out that any number of small, obscure religions have proven at least as peaceable, honest, and chaste as Judaism. The Parsis of India, for example, might well be more upright by all those accounts than Jews (and probably more humble too).

Anonymous said...

I doubt you have objective peer reviewed evidence that atheism inherently leads to depression in later life. At least, no substantial body of evidence.

Additionally there are many choices people make other then atheism: agnosticism, deism, freethinking, and a multitude of religions. All decent studies on religious affiliation and mental health indicate that it's the involvement in communal organizations- not faith based ones per se- that contribute to mental and physical health.

You may not see much smoking or obesity in your community. Spend more time in Yeshivas in Israel or in the Ortho communities in Brooklyn. The poor diet, lack of exercise and high rates of smoking are appalling.

jewish philosopher said...

"We should make the best of our lives,"

I've heard that argument, but it's still depressing.

" The Parsis of India, for example, might well be more upright by all those accounts than Jews (and probably more humble too)."

Sources, please?

"I doubt you have objective peer reviewed evidence that atheism inherently leads to depression in later life. At least, no substantial body of evidence."

Scientists are generally atheists and have little reason to sing the presses of monotheism. This post includes some interesting comments however.

http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2008/01/chandra-good-atheist.html

jewish philosopher said...

And if anyone still has doubts, read this post.

http://hasidicrebel.blogspot.com/2011/03/dangling-thoughts.html

NC said...

People who switch religious affiliation, in any direction, probably have a higher likelihood of being troubled individuals looking for answers to existential questions or escape from their present circumstances. This doesn't mean that it is a majority of them, just that it is more common. I certainly have known many baal teshuva losers, although its not always clear what came first.

jewish philosopher said...

There seems to be a pattern common to most orthodox Jewish converts to atheism: trauma, depression, hedonism and finally apostasy.

http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2008/07/jewish-skeptics-and-sex.html

The chances of these people ever creating successful, happy families seems slim to none.

YC said...

Looks like Jacob "Shit-for-Brains" Stein has another gem! (Okay, sorry! That was a little harsh. I shouldn't insult fecal matter by comparing it to Jacob Stein...)

One small problem. It is premised on the false premise that there are ONLY 2 religious options: Atheism and Orthodox Judaism.

Oh yeah, Modern Orthodox Judaism is a "transitional form" between Orthodox Judaism proper and "atheism."

I'll grant your contention that agnosticism, deism, and pantheism are really just "sexed up atheism." (Richard Dawkins would certainly agree with you on that.)

I suppose that Buddhism, Confucianism, Jainism, and Marxism are "systematized atheistic religions."

I will even grant for the sake of argument that animism, fetishism, and shamanism are "primitive atheistic mysticism."

But where does that leave the Baha'i, Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, and Zoroastrians? Are they Orthodox Jews or atheists?

Your false dichotomy inevitably implies a false binary: that Orthodox Judaism and "Atheism" are the only religions in existence. Even if you can justify arguing that all "pagans" are essentially atheists, Judaism is not the only Abrahamic religion.

Otherwise, your post fails miserably to explain why you chose Judaism. (As opposed to, say, Islam or Mormonism...)

You do make the baseless claim that: "It may be in fact the world's most burdensome religion."

With no way to define "burdensome," no way to quantify burdensome-ness, and no empirical support, you seem to take that assumption for granted. Then again, to be fair you qualify that statement with "it may be," which is probably a good idea when you pull such facts out of your ass.

Skipio said...

Your argument(s) for why you chose Judaism do not explain anything at all! Comparing the aggregate behavior of Jews and atheists does not cut it. The same applies to any other Abrahamic religion.

I mean just look at the guy in the picture. He is dressed for 17th century Northern Europe in the fucking desert, where there is probably a heat that breaks triple digits on the Fahrenheit scale. What a dumbass!

Assuming his religion requires modest dress, why not dress like the local Arabs, who manage to dress modestly but whose garments at least provide comfort in the desert heat?

What is the appeal of a religion that expects its adherents to smell like ass (because they are expected to dress like folk from Poland-Lithuania in Palestine)?

jewish philosopher said...

Have you ever been do Jerusalem? Do you know how chilly winter is there? From this photo, can you tell the temperature?

Mr. Cohen said...

I am an Orthodox Jew, and I wish this blog would be deleted from the internet, for these reasons:

[1] Jewish law forbids debating atheists and apostates.

[2] Our Rabbis warned us against doing things that cause people to slander us or mock us. This web site violates that principle all the time.

[3] Our Rabbis warned us against doing things that expose us to danger. Jewish Philosopher has endangered himself unnecessarily by publicizing his real name and photograph and by arguing with people who may or may not be violent, and may or may not have guns.

[4] Jewish Philosopher’s time would be much better spent tutoring Jews who sincerely want to learn. There are 100+ better ways for him to spend his time than this web site.

[5] Jewish Philosopher has a basic understanding of the issues, but that is not enough to refute atheism and evolution. To acquire all of the specialized knowledge necessary to debate all these topics in their full details would take several decades to many decades.

[6] Jewish Philosopher would have a much better chance responding to just one person, but it is almost impossible to adequately respond to remarks from 50 different people.

[7] Jewish Philosopher is not doing a good job of defending Orthodox Jews and Orthodox Judaism against the accusations made in this blog.

I will continue to post this message until Jewish Philosopher publishes it.

jewish philosopher said...

Mr Cohen, since you haven't identified yourself I know very little about you. However I am curious: do you consider Shlomo Carlebach's method of Jewish outreach to be more appropriate than mine? With no Internet available, he was apparently much more "hands on". 

http://www.lilith.org/landmark_articles/carlebach_lilithsp98.pdf

Mr. Cohen said...

First, Rabbi Shlomo Carlebach is not relevant to the points that I am trying to make.

Second, Lillith Magazine is worthless; they are not observant, not knowledgeable in Torah, not trustworthy, and should not be quoted by Torah Jews.

Third, you did not really respond to my arguments.

Fourth, I once personally received an endorsement signature from Rabbi Avigdor Miller OBM, who you claim to follow.

Fifth, which reliable Rabbi told you that you should occupy yourself with this web site? Probably nobody.

jewish philosopher said...

Don't you have that Derech Emet group? So you support Carlebach and Rav Kook?

Mr. Cohen said...

I have no special connection with Rabbi Carlebach or Rabbi Kook, nor do I understand why you think I would. You still have not answered my questions.

Rabbi Avigdor Miller OBM taught that suicide is the worst kind of murder, and wasting time is a kind of suicide.

Jewish Philosopher, you are wasting your valuable time and life by arguing with the pathetic assortment of people who visit this blog: heretics, apostates, atheists, lunatics, mockers and morons.

My advice: Forget this blog and get a life!

And if you won’t do that, then at least turn off the comments on this blog. Goodbye!

jewish philosopher said...

Don't you have all those photos on the yahoo group of the Carlebach shul, Efrat, Yeshivot Hesder? I realize that my blog is contrary to modern orthodoxy.

Mr. Cohen said...

ALL of the pictures in my web site were added for the sole purpose of increasing my google rating. They do not imply any endorsement from me.

jewish philosopher said...

Add photos of me, not the synagogue of some playboy "outreach rabbi" or half baked Zionist yeshiva!!

Mr. Cohen said...

Jewish Philosopher, the Jewish people would be better off if this entire blog would be deleted from the internet. I hope that one day soon you wake up and realize that, the sooner the better.

Since you refuse to listen to me, I will not be talking to you anymore.

Since you refuse to listen, you deserve to waste your time on this blog with confused people who also refuse to listen; it is called middah-keneged-middah. Goodbye!

jewish philosopher said...

Stop messing with meshuganner playboys and zionists! Join the Jewish Philosopher today!