Monday, November 01, 2010

The Gay Liberation Scam


[can we trust them?]

The idea behind the Gay Liberation movement, which began about 1960 in New York, is that homosexuals are a race, similar to Negros and therefore to discriminate against them in any way is merely a form of racism - irrational hatred of someone who has different physical characteristics. They argue that just like blacks they were born the way they are and cannot change even if they wanted to and they just want to be respected and accepted like everyone else is.

The fact is that scientifically this is nonsense. There is no homosexual race and homosexuality is caused by cultural influences and childhood experiences  as well as by genetics. There have been many societies in which homosexuality was rare or unknown. In addition to that the Torah merely prohibits male to male anal intercourse, which in any case is clearly an unhygienic and unhealthy practice.

Claiming homosexuals to be a race is basically equivalent to claiming that alcoholics are a race. Men having anal intercourse with other men is a vice not a race.

The fact is that since 1960, every type of sexual behavior (except regular, married sex) has become more common in the US - sex before marriage, adultery, masturbation, sex with children, sado-masochism, sex with the same sex, sex for money, sex during or after murder, oral sex, anal sex, etc. This trend is continuing. This has created a wave of abortions, fatherless children, grisly serial killings, pedophilia and disease, but not much else unfortunately.

48 comments:

Shalmo said...

Why should this bother you?

Most secular jews find the orthodox lifestyle immoral and absurd, just as you may find the homosexual life absurd.

In a liberal society we take what we like and we rise above what we don't like.

Don't you think jews have enough problems as it is? Just recently the neanderthals that lead Israel have passed a bill demanding all israeli citizens (arabs included) to swear loyalty to israel as a "jewish" state, ratifying its judeo-supremicism and legitamizing global antisemetism all the more.

And this post will only make those ill-feelings stronger :(

jewish philosopher said...

The purpose of this blog is to promote truth and real happiness; fighting lies and harmful addictions.

Anonymous said...

This is a straw man argument. The movement for gay rights is not based on the claim that homosexuals are a "race". Rather, it is based on the claim that they are a group which has experienced discrimination and persecution (a claim which even your own blog amply supports). Discrimination can occur on a number of grounds aside from race, including gender, religion, nationality, disability. The Americans with Disabilities Act doesn't assume that people with disabilities are a "race", nor is the requirement of religious accommodation based on the notion that religion = race (in the case of someone like yourself, it is certainly a choice - that doesn't make discrimination against Jews any more acceptable).

Your source for information regarding whether homosexuality is cultural or genetic are not reliable. Certainly, there is a societal element with respect to the open practice of various sexual behaviours. Someone is going to hide something if there is a good chance that it can get them killed. It says nothing reliable, though, about preferences and inclinations which may be deeply hidden. We know today that there are in fact Orthodox Jews with homosexual orientation, and we also know of many instances of same-sex relationships and molestation occurring in the Orthodox Jewish community, which were covered up until fairly recently.

I'm not sure how one could even measure the rates of various sexual practices that take place behind closed doors over time. Please provide some real evidence to support your statements. For example, there is some evidence that demand for prostitutes went down during the Sexual Revolution (after all, why pay when you can get it free?).

I also find it astonishing that you would lump together something like oral sex with pedophilia or necrophilia. For many, it IS part of normal, marital sex, and there are sources in traditional Jewish law that permit it (and even heterosexual anal sex) based on Nedarim 2b.

jewish philosopher said...

"Rather, it is based on the claim that they are a group which has experienced discrimination and persecution (a claim which even your own blog amply supports)."

As have alcoholics. No one seems upset by that.

Some people drink soda, some drink whiskey. Perhaps it's just a different dietary orientation, not an illness or a vice.

Anonymous said...

Your lack of education is showing. You may be very smart, but you are uneducated. I can only wonder if you are a bigot because you are uneducated or uneducated because you are bigoted. At any rate, I've never met a bigot who was not inwardly embarrassed by himself.

jewish philosopher said...

I think that was an ad hominem argument

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Although it might fall in the category of an appeal to ridicule

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-ridicule.html

It's simple amazing how over the past 50 years people have been persuaded by atheists that "gay is ok". I suppose if atheists were to seriously work at it with 50 years of propaganda they could convince people to fill ice cream cones with feces and tell each other how delicious they are, better than real ice cream. 

Anonymous said...

It seems that your posts are getting more rambling and illogical. Are the gays driving you crazy since you got kicked out of school?

jewish philosopher said...

Appeal to ridicule, again.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-ridicule.html

Notice how atheists never offer any facts or logical arguments, because they have none.

Anonymous said...

Funny that you should make an analogy to alcoholism.

Under the Americans with Disabilities Act, you can't discriminate against someone for being an alcoholic (although an employer may have a policy prohibiting employees from consuming or being under the influence of alcohol, and hold them to the same performance standards as other employees).

The other obvious comparison, of course, is religious discrimination. It's not allowed, even though there is certainly an element of "choice" involved.

jewish philosopher said...

Everyone recognizes alcoholism is either an illness or a vice, not a race or religion. Logically, male homosexuality should be regarded the same way even from a secular point of view.

Anonymous said...

You suggest that homosexuality should be considered a vice both from the religious and secular perspectives. You cite the "Conservapedia" and its article "Homosexuality and health" to prove that anal intercourse is "clearly an unhygienic and unhealthy practice," but your source is clearly biased by conservative leanings. Could you please site an unbiased source for the sake of clarity and to show the strength of your argument? You do not speak to homosexual practices outside of anal intercourse. How would behaviors ranging from kissing to fellatio fall into your classification of clear vice? And how do homosexual women factor into your argument? Rambam (Law of Forbidden Relations, Chap 21, Law 9) considers nearly any sexual practice between consenting, married, heterosexual adults as permitted. You have not commented on this or Anon1:25's citation of Nedarim 2b. How do you explain these sources with regard to your classification of all the acts you mention ("sex before marriage, adultery, masturbation...") as interconnected? Also, I would like to reiterate his (?) question regarding your source of information about the incidence of various sexual behaviors pre-Kinsey. After sharing an unbiased source on the dangers of anal intercourse, explaining the problems of non-anal homosexual behavior and homosexual behavior between women, justifying these sources against the Rambam and Nedarim, and showing clearly the rise of all sexual behaviors deviant and otherwise, please explain how, outside the Torah's directive against male homosexual behaviors, a secular individual might arrive at the conclusion that homosexuality is a vice. I think this course of inquiry should help clear up any difficulties posed by your analogy of homosexuality to alcoholism. It is clear that if homosexual behavior of any kind could lead to injury of self and others which differs from that which could result from heterosexual behavior, then your analogy might have some weight.

Anonymous said...

And there's the reason that you are incapable of reasonable presentation. The torah has addled your mind to the extent that you invoke logic but in fact debase and transform it into a cudgel of intolerance.
That's one of the arguments against torah education. What an ugly world this would be if everyone were as fanaticaly intolerant as you.
BTW, how is your wife's divorce proceeding against you? Too bad she won't get much in a monetary settlement. You're too broke, but at least she'll get total custody of your children. No judge would permit a whacko like you to retain custody.
Your poor unfortunate kids. What a rachmunis.

Anonymous said...

Wow, JP! You sure are obsessed.

I think it is painfully obvious that you are unable to come to terms with your own suppressed homosexuality. That is the ONLY possiblie explanation.

NoLiveGod said...

"[can we trust them?]"

At one time, "them" was the Jews. It is today, to many.

Since 9/11, "them" is often the Muslims.

To you, it's homosexuals (and people who aren't Jewish enough, and feminists, and liberals, and atheists, probably blacks, politicians, scientists, socialists, communists, materialists, capitalists, industrialists, unions, Scandinavians, philosophers, pacifists, Zionists, intellectuals, educators, and lawyers).

Who exactly is "we"?

jewish philosopher said...

As far as tolerance goes, I've just recently experienced the tolerance of sexual deviants.

http://bocesjustice.blogspot.com/

I am basically criticizing male to male anal sex. It's not a religion or a race. It's a sickness, a vice and a grave sin which should be criminalized. I don't see anyone presenting evidence to the contrary.

Anonymous said...

3:06 here. I would love to have an intellectual discussion on the issue, as you appear to have thought deeply about the issue of homosexuality. It is clear that the Torah considers homosexuality a grave sin, and I think even the most liberal of Orthodox Rabbis would still see it as a taiva. That being said, we live in a nation founded on principles of the separation of Church and State. These principles can be set aside when not doing so poses a grave risk to public wellbeing. If you would please respond to my inquiry into the various points brought up both in your post and later comments, I'm sure we could then begin to investigate your approach from a logical, rather than emotional, standpoint.

NoLiveGod said...

"I am basically criticizing male to male anal sex."

No, you are criticizing "them." And not only do you imply that "they" cannot be trusted, you characterize a certain kind of human sex as "a sickness." Of course, you are neither a doctor nor a nurse nor anything else requiring education--so your opinion on what is or is not a "sickness" carries no weight at all. Your opinion is negligible.

Finally, you call homosexual sex (although you only seem to have a problem with male anal sex--you never mention male-male kissing or oral sex, or female-female sex) a "grave sin." Perhaps this is based on your reading of some of the many versions of Bible. After you finish justifying why your reading deserves some sort of privilege over others that disagree with you, you still need to contend with the fact that the Bible is fiction and no one actually cares what it says.

jewish philosopher said...

The Torah is the oldest and most influential book known to man. Nobody cares what you say, my little troll.

NoLiveGod said...

"The Torah is the oldest and most influential book known to man."

Even if this were true, it would have no bearing on contemporary morality. Warren Buffett is old and influential, too. Whatever he thinks about homosexuality is hardly a concern.

"Nobody cares what you say, my little troll."

Probably true. I don't need anyone to care about what I say. The point, however, is that your bigotry is fully exposed. Your bigotry is of the same type as that used against all sorts of people, including (maybe even especially) Jews.

If you had any real love for Jews, humanity, history, knowledge, God, or Torah, I think the content of your blog would be much different than what it is. You are a Jew of one, a Jew of yourself alone. That's why I wondered who you were calling "we" in your OP.

I cannot imagine your case against the nursing school is progressing well. Just be glad you got your money back. That's better than how post-war Europe treated "us."

Anonymous said...

I understand that the life expectantcy of homomsexuals is ~20 years less than that of heterosexuals. Its not a good thing.

jewish philosopher said...

"Your bigotry is of the same type as that used against all sorts of people, including (maybe even especially) Jews."

Because gays are a race? Clearly nonsense.

Anonymous said...

Anon3:06 again (more recently 4:50). To be fair to NLG, JP, he doesn't say that gays are a race in his argument. For that matter, the US doesn't consider Jews a race either, and for the most part, no one besides some Zionists and the Nazis have considered us a race. I would still like to read your thoughts concerning the questions I posed earlier regarding the other arguments you've made. I think it would be interesting.

On a side note, Anon10:39, I've looked for a source for the statistic you quoted above, but I couldn't find one. Could you please share that with us? And do explain the significance, as my research turned up that East Asians beat Americans by nearly 10 years, Whites beat African Americans by approximately the same, and the US appears to be nearly on par with several Middle Eastern and North African nations. Interesting.

GodAwful said...

The Torah does not condemn lesbian sex. Its nice to see that the Torah is so tolerant. In that spirit, let the celebration begin !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TCmP0TaW1k&feature=player_embedded#!

jewish philosopher said...

I haven't said anything about lesbians.

GodAwful said...

Maybe you should go back to that nursing school from which you were expelled and explain that you were misunderstood. That you're really all far all that cute and cuddly lesbian sex. Just to show them how pro lesbian you are, ask them to put you in a class with all lesbian nurses. I hear they're really hot.
They might let you back in.

jewish philosopher said...

There should be a law against Rosie O'donnell.

Anonymous said...

It will be the ultimate irony when one or more of JP's kids come out of the closet. I for one can hardly wait.

Anonymous said...

Anon at 2:22

I googled "life expectantcy of homosexuals" and got lots of hits.
Asians probably live longer than American because of life style choices. White American live longer than Black Americans due to lifestyle choices. And homosexuals do not live as long as heterosexuals because homosexuality is not a helath lifestyle choice.

Anonymous said...

Anon10:58, what is inherently unhealthy about the homosexual lifestyle? What are the factors which cause a shorter life span?

Anonymous said...

Well, there is the extreme promiscuity that spreads all kinds of diseases. I understand that there is more self destructive behavior e.g. drug abuse among homosexuala. And the suicide rate is higher.

Anonymous said...

There is extreme promiscuity among heterosexual college students which spreads all kinds of diseases. Drug abuse is higher among many minority groups as well as several privileged groups (including college students). The suicide rate is elevated in several other groups as well, including white males, the elderly, and once again, college students. You are correct in your information, but your facts do not speak to their causes. Is there something inherent in being homosexual that predisposes one to such unhealthy behaviors, or could there be some other reason gays act in such unhealthy ways?

Anonymous said...

I wonder if it would be possible to design a study, comparing how health and lifestyle is affected among gays who live in a tolerant environment vs. those who do not.

My hypothesis would be that living a double-life, or living a life where one is estranged from many family and friends and experienced extreme rejection from those closest to them, is hazardous to one's health.

Leading a double-life means that encounters are more likely to be anonymous, raising the risk of disease.

Losing the love of a parent, being told that G-d wants you dead, being harassed at school - all of these things can increase self-loathing and depression, and in turn lead to drug abuse and suicide.

Another reaction to rejection may be for someone to reject society and its norms.

jewish philosopher said...

That's exactly why I committed suicide soon after converting to judaism.

Anonymous said...

I wouldn't joke about that, JP. Many new converts and early stage Ba'alei Teshuva do exactly that. It can be a very traumatic time.

And Anon12:29, that would be an interesting study. I'd love to see its results.

jewish philosopher said...

I never heard of one.

Anonymous said...

Well, I'll be sure to share that with my friend who's late fiancée did just that. I'll also share it with my friend who was suicidal shortly after converting, only to be persecuted by both her family and the Jews in her community. Just because you've never heard of it doesn't mean it hasn't happened. I would be much happier if I'd not had to help my friends pick up the pieces.

jewish philosopher said...

There is no point in writing that because I have no way to know if it's true.

Anonymous said...

Seriously, no condolences? I'd share an obituary if I wasn't concerned about the privacy of his family and former fiancée. I remember staying up until 5am the night his body was found consoling her, trying to help her deal with losing the man she loved and was set to marry in just under a year.

I'd see if I could get my formerly suicidal friend to share her experiences, but seeing this response, I'd assume nothing different. I don't even know what to say to you. You are shameless, heartless, and have no understanding of the sufferings of your fellow Jew.

jewish philosopher said...

Seriously, I can never figure out why people bother writing things that are unverifiable.

Anonymous said...

Shame on you, sir.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous at 8:14

Two tragedies hardly constitute a "many." I know many ba'alei t'shuva and a some gerim who are just fine.

And the people in the two cases yuo sited may very well have had problems before becoming ba'alei t'shuva.

Now that I think about it, I remember that I knew two ba'alei t'shuva who took their own lives. But they had problems before becoming ba'aley t'shuva.

Anonymous said...

These are two cases to which I am personally connected. While at Yeshiva, I was made aware of quite a few other cases of suicide and attempted suicide by such individuals. One of my friends there lost two personal friends, another friend lost his girlfriend. There had been a suicide at a different Yeshiva not long before I arrived, three recent suicides at seminaries where acquaintances of mine had attended. I cannot speak to numbers, but they certainly appear higher than those from FFB situations.

Anonymous said...

All I am trying to point out is that the experience of suicide by those dealing with marginalization due to their lifestyle choices cannot be limited to gays, and Jewish converts and ba'alei teshuva are no exception. It is nothing to joke about. I was personally offended by JPs insensitivity to the pain and losses of myself and my friends.

jewish philosopher said...

Unless you can back these claims up with evidence, I think you're lying.

Stiil Curious said...

What do you plan on doing when your kid comes out of the closet?

jewish philosopher said...

Still curious, what do you plan on doing when your pedophile children come out of the closet? It's just as common as homosexuality. Will you be embrace them unconditionally?

StillCurious said...

I believe that in this world we have to protect society from people who live thier lives bound by a book written millenia ago. Thhat goes for persecuted homosexuals whom people like you would like to execute (your words) And children as well. If a child is under the age of consent and/or legally a minor they must be protected from people who read this book and say it is ok to heave sex with children because god said so

jewish philosopher said...

You should really try to protect society from the religion of death - atheism. No atheistic community has ever reproduced at replacement level and had a low level of violence.