Thursday, August 26, 2010

The Afterlife - a Moral Necessity


As many people have noticed, in this world, the wicked frequently prosper while the righteous frequently suffer. For example, Mao and Stalin lived long, successful lives while many people who opposed tyranny met early and painful deaths. Considering this, it would seem clear that, in many cases, virtue is foolish and evil is smart. Crime can indeed pay very well.

That is, unless one believes in an afterlife.

The afterlife means that ultimately, justice will prevail. Virtue is always the smart choice and evil is always foolish. Whether in heaven, hell or some future incarnation, all accounts will be balanced out and good will triumph. Judaism firmly believes in such ultimate divine justice.

Of course, like any concept, the idea of an afterlife can be misused. Evil leaders can promise their followers a reward in the afterlife if they will do evil. However if one believes in a loving God who wishes us to help others and who will punish destructive behavior, then the belief in the afterlife is a powerful incentive to be a kind, patient and generous person.

The atheist, however, has no such incentive and on the contrary will quickly learn that dishonesty, selfishness and violence are often rewarded and, unless he simply has a very good natural temperament, he will behave accordingly. Atheism not only permits vice, a really virtuous atheist is simply a fool. His behavior contradicts his beliefs.

A belief in positive moral principles and an in an afterlife, where virtue is rewarded and evil punished, are the foundations of a successful society.

The decline which American society is now experiencing has been brought about by a lack in this belief. The traditional Protestant work ethic, the belief that diligent work is a sign of grace, has now been almost completely replaced by the ethic of the 1960s counterculture: "tune in, turn on, and drop out".

50 comments:

NoLiveGod said...

"unless one believes in an afterlife"

No...unless there IS an afterlife and unless the afterlife include the kind of punishment for sins that you say.

"Atheism not only permits vice, a really virtuous atheist is simply a fool. His behavior contradicts his beliefs."

Not really. Strictly speaking atheism promoted no moral code but simply rejects the existence of gods, gods which are invented and used and misused (as you say) to justify the line between right and wrong behavior. An atheist believes that your god is unnecessary to create and legislate moral behavior.

That's all you need to remember about atheism: your god is unnecessary. There is no morality or happiness that your god or your religion confers that cannot be gotten better in a secular environment.

That's why the US is officially a secular nation, and an important reason why it's been so successful.

Anonymous said...

Whatever America's "decline," clearly bloated capitalism and political intransigence deserve the blame. And all the religions and the religious were on the sidelines cheering.

jewish philosopher said...

"but simply rejects the existence of gods"

Can you define "god"?

"There is no morality or happiness that your god or your religion confers that cannot be gotten better in a secular environment."

That's nonsense, as this post proves.

"That's why the US is officially a secular nation, and an important reason why it's been so successful."

And the more secular it becomes, the less successful.

" clearly bloated capitalism and political intransigence deserve the blame"

No, I think what happened is that until not very long ago, people believed that they had to live a life of sobriety, chastity, honesty and work or God would punish them. About 50 years ago, the youth started to drop that belief. Today those youth are the elderly and the corporate and government leaders, while their children and grandchildren are even worse. The result is what could be expected.

NC said...

Several logical fallacies here.

1. correlation is not causation. America's 'decline' (as opposed to China's ascent???) is occurring now, while its secularization has been going on for a century. How do you know it is "causing" it, except based on your own wishful thinking?

2. The 'traditional protestant work ethic'? Who has maintained that? The hard-working, productive and industrious Heredim who loiter around the Beis Midrash all day, living off other people's money? This is the "special pleading" argument.

3. The claim that belief in afterlife is a prerequisite for morality has no basis in fact. Nonetheless it is your favorite assertion, even though it is utterly without evidence. I challenge you to prove it. First define morality, than demonstrate that it cannot be present without afterlife.

Having said that, clearly, your biblical religious claims about god fall apart without an afterlife, As you have pointed out, there is obviously no justice on earth, except that administered by man.

So you are a little confused. It is not morality that falls apart without afterlife; it is your religious faith in a omnipotent and just god that collapses into absurdity and contradiction.

So I would characterize your claims about afterlife as wishful thinking.

NoLiveGod said...

"About 50 years ago, the youth started to drop that belief. Today those youth are the elderly and the corporate and government leaders, while their children and grandchildren are even worse. The result is what could be expected."

This is basic "grumpy old man-ism." Our forefathers were better and more sober than we are. Youth today have no respect for anything. Times are changing for the worse.

See Plato....

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."

Attributed to SOCRATES by Plato, according to William L.
Patty and Louise S. Johnson, Personality and Adjustment, p. 277
(1953)."

jewish philosopher said...

"as opposed to China's ascent???"

Have you heard of the Confucian work ethic?

http://www.apmforum.com/columns/eaststrategy1.htm

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,923424,00.html

The belief in justice in the afterlife is based on many Biblical and Talmudic source.

http://www.jewfaq.org/olamhaba.htm

Whose validity I've made clear.

http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2006/12/truth-of-judaism.html

"The claim that belief in afterlife is a prerequisite for morality has no basis in fact."

I think it could not be more clearly proven than by the behavior of atheists themselves, who are either narcissistic hedonists or murderers or both. I have only been able to find one documented case of a decent atheist, and he regretted being an atheist.

http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2008/01/chandra-good-atheist.html

jewish philosopher said...

"This is basic "grumpy old man-ism.""

I wouldn't count on that, unfortunately.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/01/how-america-can-rise-again/7839/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Fallows

As far as Socrates goes, Greece seems to have fallen a little since Aristotle and Alexander.

NC said...

"think it could not be more clearly proven than by the behavior of atheists themselves, who are either narcissistic hedonists or murderers or both. "

After you calm down a bit, please provide evidence of that claim. I don't mean individual examples, I mean behavior as a group.

China has become industrious, despite official atheism. Confucianism is primarily cultural an not religious. Most Asian countries have a strong family culture, even though they aren't very religious. The protestant work ethic in Germany has persisted, despite a social and secular society.

"Whose validity I've made clear."

You've done nothing of the sort. You have explained why you believe in them, fine, that's far from proving that everything in the books is true.

The major logical flaw you make in this post is the either/or dichotomy. Either you believe in the threat of life after death and are moral, or you don't and you aren't. You completely overlook other possibilities. Haven't you encountered spiritual people who aren't religious? Your range of experience seems to be very limited.

It seems that cognitively you have not progressed beyond the childhood stage of black and white thinking.

jewish philosopher said...

"I don't mean individual examples, I mean behavior as a group."

Groups are made up of individuals.

"The protestant work ethic in Germany has persisted"

Germany is not the world power it was a century ago by any means.

"You've done nothing of the sort."

Obviously nothing will convince someone deeply in denial.

"Haven't you encountered spiritual people who aren't religious?"

Sure, plenty of people are in transition, as I've explained here.

http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2008/12/always-let-your-conscience-be-your.html

Alex said...

JP, this Orthodox author might disagree with your thesis:
http://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/705187/Rabbi_Yitzchak_Blau/04._Ivan_Karamazov_Revisited:_The_Moral_Argument_for_Religious_Belief

onionsoupmix said...

So... the reason you don't kill and steal is because God is going to punish you after 120 years? You have no inner compass of morality aside from fear of divine retribution? That's pretty sad.

jewish philosopher said...

How many Americans today shoplift or have an abortion? Do you see the problem?

onionsoupmix said...

Relative to the general population? Not many. For example, about 85-90% of people are honest when nobody's looking. So, no, I don't see the problem.

http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers/WhatTheBagelManSaw.pdf

NC said...

"Groups are made up of individuals."

Oh I get it. So most blacks are drug dealers and murderers, right? And most Jews are money-grubbing thieves, correct?

This is called "stereotyping".

"Obviously nothing will convince someone deeply in denial."

Honestly, your arguments are flawed and full of logical fallacies. Over-generalizations, false either/or dichotomies, arguments from authority and wishful thinking. If you want we can agree upon a mutually acceptable and credible source to determine who is in denial.

Since you are a skeptic and atheist in respect to the gods of all of the other religions except your own, we are already in 99% agreement!

I think that it is obvious from this who is in denial.

Go ahead, JP, take the final plunge, the last step.

jewish philosopher said...

"85-90% of people are honest when nobody's looking"

That is an interesting article, however all that it proves is that about 90% of American office workers would rather pay 50 cents for a bagel rather than take a chance of looking like a selfish idiot if someone notices that they didn't pay.

In regards to atheism, probably the most atheistic society in world, with no tradition at all of monotheism, is North Korea. Would you like to try living there for a few years? A few years in prison over there is a great way to shed some pounds.

"This is called "stereotyping"."

Not really. The stated beliefs of atheism imply a degenerate way of life.

"If you want we can agree upon a mutually acceptable and credible source to determine who is in denial."

I think my motives are clearly honest.

http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2009/01/motives.html

"we are already in 99% agreement!"

Your god is evolution, the Mindless Watchmaker, mine is the Biblical God, so we are 100% in disagreement.

NoLiveGod said...

"The atheist, however, has no such incentive and on the contrary will quickly learn that dishonesty, selfishness and violence are often rewarded."

The Jew who knows his Talmud also knows that there are quite a few allowances for dishonesty, selfishness and violence -- if you act so to the right people.

But then, if you really believed in God and Torah you would behave much differently. You follow Talmud, not Torah, and Talmud is just one of those steps toward atheism. It's transitional. If you actually believed in God and Torah, you would kill much more than I expect you already do.

jewish philosopher said...

"The Jew who knows his Talmud also knows that there are quite a few allowances for dishonesty, selfishness and violence"

Violence is almost unknown in the Orthodox Jewish community. I am aware of only one Orthodox Jew currently serving a prison sentence for murder: Yigal Amir, the killer of Rabin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yigal_Amir

I have never heard of an Orthodox Jew convicted of forcible rape.

At the same time charity flourishes in the Orthodox community.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzedakah

Notice how many atheists continue to pose, falsely, as Orthodox Jews because they cannot bare to leave the kind and loving atmosphere of our community.

"You follow Talmud, not Torah,"

As I have pointed out, the Talmud is the only viable interpretation of the Torah.

http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2010/08/thank-god-for-talmud.html

Shalmo said...

Haredi society is maintained by quite literally ripping off the state. Welfare that should be provided to families who actually need it is indeed stolen to maintain a transgenerational system of joblessness and large families unable to make ends meet.

What awaits in the afterlife those who sponsor such a capricious way of living?

Even more insane is to believe these people are God's chosen and his light unto the gentiles, while its quite obvious they are the ones who are living off gentiles to begin with

NC said...

"I have never heard of an Orthodox Jew convicted of forcible rape."

What other kind of rape is there? Voluntary rape?

Drew Linkman, pen name said...

Another penetrating commentary which I applaud.

Two comments:

1. It seems to me that a "definition" of God by a mind/ brain defined by God is self-contradicting. It would imply that God is limited in essence to the point that it could be comprehended by a finite mind. What sense would that make? Why do we even discuss the subject?

2. Reality after death is likely to violate our habitual thought patterns, and our assessments of what is likely. When I came to edge of death in 1995 (20% chance of survival), I was given a vision, in a conscious state, of a being eternally suffering from the painful infliction of this world. However, putting words afteward to what I saw, the ongoing experience of that being, who was given to me as a Being of Light--that I could only describe subsequently as "the Son of all Creation!" or "the Messiah himself!--was one of suffering in the cause of Truth, and therefore, in that, the Beauty of Truth (!)--and, therefore, infinite Joy. (I will not describe the emotional and physical reaction I experienced during this experience.) And it is not necessary for anyone else to believe the vision was true. (I have not shared it with many, as to share it outloud seems trivial to me.) It is only important to believe that such a being is POSSIBLE. Such a being would be an incarnation of perfect justice, resolving innocent suffering from the world--inevitable, circumstantial, not planned--into truth and joy.

What "proof" is there? None. How convincing is it? For you, the answer depends on your experience and perception of suffering and injustice in the world, and the possibility of resolution.

I regret, though, that I cannot communicate it to Bart D.Ehrman (God's Problem: How the Bible Fails to Answer Our Most Important Question--Why We Suffer), the author who has written so much on the scriptures, but who now has retreated to skepticsim, based the level of suffering allowed in the world. It is important that skeptics reserve the possibility of a resolution in the next life, to understand that even the worse suffering might resolve to something of infinite importance. We should not be bound in our thinking or driven to skepticism by logic that is conditioned by our perception of plausible events and realities in THIS world....A world beyond this would surely be surprising, even if somehow temporarily contingent on it.

(For me, of course, it is somewhat easier to believe, because I remember my absolute certitude for some time after the experience.)

To chase our tails based on logical arguments alone will send us into perpetual circles!

Drew Linkman, pen name said...

In discussing suffering and God, we should not be bound by the rules of probability ingrained by the parameters of this physical world. In 1995, when I was given a 20% chance of survival, I experienced, consciously, a being of light within my internal perception, who was suffering unbelievably each day, like a saber through the heart, but whose suffering was somehow endured in the cause of truth, giving the experience overriding beauty, and therefore, of course, infinite joy. This being of light seemed so enrapturing to me at the time, that I could only describe a what I embraced as "the Son of Creation, the Messiah himself..."

I rarely share the experience of this vision because it is not subject of logical challenge or proof, and is therefore unconvincing to others. It becomes trivail. In this forum, I can, however, because it is open to the possibility of an afterlife.

It is not important that anyone believe that this vision was true or is accurately conveyed. Its importance is in accepting its POSSIBILITY. That step frees us from chasing our tails with logical arguments bound by the assessments of plausability we have learned from everyday physical life here.

If one simply accepts that an afterlife would be surprising in some ways, then they can accept the possibility that a being could exist that absorbed all suffering in the cause of truth and kindness and that this experience, as horrible as it was, also became beauty and joy for its infinite nobility.

Can't be!!!! Unless it IS....

We, here, do not define realities that may be just a step away. Positing the possibility of such realities keeps us from adopting the skepticism of a Bart Ehrman (God's Problem: How the Bible Fails to Answer Our Most Important Question--Why We Suffer).

We must keep our minds open to the possibility of resolution, a perfect form of justice that we did not conceive or expect....

jewish philosopher said...

Statutory rape.

Anonymous said...

Forgive me for asking but hasn't the issue of sexual abuse, and its cover-up by communal leaders been in the news rather frequently?

Alex said...

onionsoupmix said...
"So... the reason you don't kill and steal is because God is going to punish you after 120 years? You have no inner compass of morality aside from fear of divine retribution? That's pretty sad."

At least represent JP's position honestly, OnionSoupMix. He indeed believes in an inner compass of morality, but he doesn't think it's all that dependable. The belief in the afterlife is to be used as a safety net, in case temptation overrides that inner compass.

NC said...

Aha, I see what you are getting at. Some rabbis do prefer young girls.

In any case there are occasional news items in the US and Israel of rape, even in the Heredi world. I promise to send you a link next time I see one (I have to admit I don't keep a database of such things).

In my view, religion is probably the most successful sales scam in the history of man. Religion and its claims make marketing scams like Amway, homeopathic medicine, organic farming and Bernie Madoff look like child's play.

Think about it. Someone presents himself as a holy man, produces a holy book with fantastic stories, tells the people that only he holds the secrets to life and god, and that an eternity of torture awaits them after death if they don't listen to him.

All scams have similar characteristics. First and foremost make claims that are unverifiable, untestable but pseudoscientific to make them look logical and intelligent. The claim that everything else is false and only you hold the truth. Then make the followers pay with blood, money, or obedience (or all 3) to the designated experts. Label anybody who tries to test or verify the claims as heretics, corrupt, or part of a conspiracy.

As far as marketing scams go, you really have to hand it to Christianity and Islam. Nothing beats them. They should be paying royalties to an earlier scam, Judaism, to which they owe their founding ideas. Judaism has been less successful-- probably because its harder.

NC said...

Follow up- I know that what I will mention is a bit of a red herring, but it is relevant to belief.

Homeopathic medicine was invented in the 18th century, when we knew very little of the biology that we know now. It makes odd claims about treating symptoms by giving substances that induce the symptoms, to allow the body to "heal" the ailment.

Amazingly, the more dilute the "medicine" given, the more potent the treatment. (Given this idea, taking nothing at all would cause an overdose!)

Now, modern medicine has progressed leaps and bounds since then, and the physical theories that lie behind HM are known to be nonsense. Well designed experiments and statistical analysis have demonstrated HM treatments to be no better than placebo.

Yet, HM remains a multibillion dollar global business, with lots of well meaning (sometimes) and intelligent people and practitioners believing in and promoting it. Every effort to subject HM to proper scientific scrutiny is met with claims that HM can't be studied in experiments, or that the AMA is conspiring against them.

Why?

Because in our nature we want to believe and put trust in something. Yet we have a tendency to believe in conspiracy theories regarding the prevailing "authority". And we are basically vulnerable to deception, especially when it gives us hope. (which is why phishing scams work)

Does this sound familiar??

People will believe anything, no matter how ridiculous, if it gives them hope and meaning.

jewish philosopher said...

"Forgive me for asking but hasn't the issue of sexual abuse, and its cover-up by communal leaders been in the news rather frequently?"

About one in every 620 Americans is a registered sex offender. Proportionally about 970 Orthodox Jews should be registered sex offenders. I don’t believe that there is 1% that number.

http://www.registeredoffenderslist.org/blog/sex-offenders/child-molestation-statistics/

http://www.familywatchdog.us/Default.asp

http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html

http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/world-jewish-population.htm#_Toc26172077

"there are occasional news items in the US and Israel of rape, even in the Heredi world"

I am unaware of a single Orthodox Jew in history having been convicted of forcible rape.

"People will believe anything, no matter how ridiculous, if it gives them hope and meaning."

And dishonest people will believe anything, no matter how ridiculous, if it allows them to do whatever they want to do. That's the basis for atheism.

No one in their right minds believes that a mass extinction event such as global warming would cause life on earth to advance to a higher level of complexity, yet this is exactly what evolution teaches happened repeatedly in the past.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction_event#Evolutionary_importance

And scientist will fight tooth and nail that evolution is an absolute fact.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGCxbhGaVfE

NC said...

"No one in their right minds believes that a mass extinction event such as global warming would cause life on earth to advance to a higher level of complexity, yet this is exactly what evolution teaches happened repeatedly in the past."

Lots of logical fallacies here. First of all there has been no mass extinction from global warming. No one says it will be a mass extinction.
Second, if a mass extintion were to occur, indeed a life form more suited to the newer (hot) environment might evolve. Not necessarily higher or more complex, just more adapted.
Third, how do you know that people "don't believe in their right minds"? That something might happen doesn't mean that we should bring it on intentionally. The earth itself might be better off without humans at all, but nobody advocates that we all commit suicide. That is an idiotic argument.

" am unaware of a single Orthodox Jew in history having been convicted of forcible rape."

Ok. Here's one:

http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-2279753,00.html

and another (not convicted yet)
http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=184091

I guess this shows its a problem, too:
http://www.1202.org.il/English/template/default.asp?siteId=1&maincat=21

But Heredim don't talk about it, because of shame.

But go ahead, keep denying it.

jewish philosopher said...

"No one says it will be a mass extinction."

Wrong.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/04/0412_060412_global_warming.html

"Not necessarily higher or more complex"

Based on past experience, mass extinctions have always lead to greater intelligence.

"That something might happen doesn't mean that we should bring it on intentionally."

Well look at it this way. Scientists have determined that earth will become uninhabitable in about a billion years in any case.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/sci/tech/specials/washington_2000/649913.stm

We had better evolve out of here before that. Recent evidence shows that our brains are actually shrinking.

http://www.livescience.com/history/091113-origins-evolving.html

The best way to jump start evolution would seemingly be mass extinction events, but it's funny that no evolutionists are advocating that. Perhaps some cognitive dissonance?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

"Ok. Here's one"

The article does not mention the name or place of residence of the offender, as would normally be the case in a news article. I would assume this article is merely anti-Orthodox propaganda.

"another (not convicted yet)"

"child molestation" is not the same crime as forcible rape.

"I guess this shows its a problem"

No mention of rape in there.

NC said...

I'll let the readers judge who is in denial here.

NC said...

Your responses to my comments speak volumes about one's ability to deny and make ignorant statements that are contrary to fact. I am not claiming that all or most orthodox Jews are rapists. I have just proven that your assertion that and rape is non-existent among the orthodox, is wrong. All you can do is attack the news source which reports a conviction, and make irrelevant distinctions.

You made a stupid and false statement, just admit the mistake and move on.

jewish philosopher said...

I will leave you to your ridiculous mindless watchmaker god, evolution, which no one really believes in.

ksil said...

"Statutory rape"

LOL.

the holy, moral torah PERMITS this!!!!


HAHAHAHA

jewish philosopher said...

The crime of statutory rape was invented in England in 1275. It was intended to prevent a child under age 12 from being seduced by an adult and losing her virginity without marrying.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G2-3045302183.html#B

http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/02/13/findlaw.analysis.colb.statutory.rape/index.html

Obviously this referred only to pre-marital sex. King Richard II of England married Isabella of Valois in 1396. He was 29 and she was 6.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isabella_of_Valois

Modern concepts of statutory rape and age of consent are about a century old.

http://aspe.hhs.gov/hsp/08/SR/StateLaws/intro.shtml#Terminology

http://www.faqs.org/childhood/A-Ar/Age-of-Consent.html

ksil said...

do you believe that the current statutory rape laws a legitimate?

if yes, by what moral standard do you believe this so?

the torah says it is perfectly fine and moral for a grown man to marry and have sex with a girl MUCH younger than him (a minor).

jewish philosopher said...

Very rarely, as I explain here.

http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2010/07/pedophilia-and-talmud.html

I think it's pretty funny when people think that because the Torah does not prohibit everything prohibited in New York State in 2010 there is something wrong with the Torah. Why New York in 2010? Why not England in 1350, China in 1625 or California in 2200?

ksil said...

i'm glad you think its "pretty funny when people think", many of us did not know you have a sense of humor.

however, please address this question: why are these relationships/marriages not allowed anymore?

If it is because it is not "morally acceptable by society" then we have a disucssion point about where these "morals" come from - becasue clearly they are not coming from the torah (which, according to you, without the torah - we would be completely immoral murdering sex fiends - as you have argued COUNTLESS times)

please do not answer this question with a link

jewish philosopher said...

First of all, I see that you don't really know me. I happen to be hilarious. And I am so tempted to throw a bunch of links right at your head.

I think the whole attitude about sex has changed in recent generations.

Previously, it was taken for granted that sex before marriage was sinful. Homosexuality of course was a death penalty. This had nothing to do with age, whether the participants were 9 or 90.

So sex was only a possibility in marriage. And the idea of a marriage involving a child arranged by the child's parents was acceptable in any pre-modern society I am aware of.

Today sex is more like a sport which may be engaged in by anyone in a private place. Of course this causes a lot of problems (here's the link; I can't resist)

http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2010/06/love-sweet-love.html

So, with typical hypocrisy, adults have decided that sex (as well as gambling, tobacco and alcohol) are OK for them, but not for their kids. Hence, the invention of the never before heard of concepts of pedophilia and age of consent.

ksil said...

well, i tried, but apparently you want to not answer my question.

oh well.

btw, you are not addressing the moral problem of adults having sex with children - this is the core issue.

you bring up that sex is allowed any place any time, then say its ok only for adults to have sex, but no their kids. huh? adults allow children to have sex too (WITH OTHER KIDS).

jewish philosopher said...

"why are these relationships/marriages not allowed anymore?"

Because today people hook up anywhere, anytime with anything. Age of consent laws and statutory rape are the only way to keep 40 year old uncles and step-dads from pulling five year old girls into bed. However in previous centuries, no one had a problem with little girls marrying an adult man with the arrangement of her parents. It was done occasionally by Christians, Muslims and Jews.

"adults allow children to have sex too (WITH OTHER KIDS)"

Not necessarily. If you don't want to end up in prison, consult with an attorney.

http://womensissues.about.com/od/datingandsex/a/Romeo_and_Julie.htm

Anonymous said...

Ksil:

What exactly is the basis for your morality? What makes your morality better than the Torah's? What is your basis for saying morality exists?

Anonymous said...

If you're so proud of America's "traditional Protestant work ethic," (mind you, propaganda put out by Lutherans, among others, to explain their success over the evil and lazy Jews and Catholics), why don't you go back to church. Goy!

jewish philosopher said...

Why don't you stop living with your mother and get a job moron?

Here are two four letter words for today's youth:

SOAP and WORK

Anonymous said...

http://www.dailyhitchens.com/2010/12/18-is-there-afterlife-christopher.html

jewish philosopher said...

Hitchens is the perfect example of atheism being a religion of death, drinking and smoking himself to death at age 61. Good riddance of worthless trash.

Anonymous said...

And did you watch the video and hear what R. Shmuley had to say? Thoughts?

jewish philosopher said...

I listened a little bit, however I don't think I agree too much.

Anonymous said...

That's unfortunate. You should listen to the whole thing. R. Shmuley is a very well respected Rabbi whose knowledge and insights are called upon by Jews everywhere. You might learn something.

jewish philosopher said...

He's not respected by anyone I know.

He's modern orthodox, which means he is blending atheism and Judaism.

divineadvancedhumanbeings.com said...



Thank you, much appreciated! Wanted to share a bit of an article written by J.S. Thompson on the subject matter titled “Criminals and Punishment for Crimes in the Afterlife” as follows…

Those who commit heinous crimes and get away with it on the earth and many of those who were caught and punished have a big surprise awaiting them when they die. When these criminals die, they are met by their family as we all are, but they are also met by the family(s) of the victim(s)! For most of us, when we leave the earth, it is a joyous occasion, the best day of our lives but for those who have harmed the innocent, it is tragic! Criminals find out very quickly that they are in peril, as they stare out across the sea of angry faces.

A life review is a very advanced 3D interactive film and all of us get one shortly after we die to the earth and are initiated into the next society, or what I refer to as “solamenta. A life review is like a debriefing of our short time on earth.

Out there we are represented by large families that are responsible for our actions while we are on the earth. When a crime is committed, there is a prearranged punishment awaiting the criminal that has been established and agreed upon by both the family of the criminal and the family(s) of the victim(s).

It is not about revenge, it is about transformation! It is well known by those out there solamenta, that transformation and true positive evolution is a product of accountability; accountability for crimes and proper praise and reward for accomplishments. Here on the earth, judicial systems are not always fair but these disparities are made right solamenta. Out there, the truth can be seen because it has been recorded! Out there, there is no doubt about who was right and who was wrong when all of the evidence had been documented and recorded! Unresolved issues follow us into our next lives. So purging the negativity and weakness of character is imperative. We do not get out of anything… ever! [more….]

http://www.divineadvancedhumanbeings.com/criminals-and-punishment-for-crimes-in-the-afterlife/