Friday, March 12, 2010

Sexual Sobriety - an Introduction


Many psychiatrists consider sex to be potentially addictive. In other words a person may feel compelled to behave sexually in spite of negative consequences. Tiger Woods recently spent 45 days in rehabilitation for sexual addiction and in 2008 David Duchovny entered rehabilitation for sexual addiction. Sex Rehab with Dr Drew was a popular television series several months ago.

In Judaism, sex is seen as being potentially very positive - when used appropriately for a positive purpose. When a couple has made a public commitment to each other and they use sex to create a bond between them and/or to have children it can be very elevated and sacred. Sex in this case is constructive and giving, not selfish and harmful.

Unfortunately, sexual addiction, in varying degrees, is something which may affect many people within the Orthodox community. A recent blog post presented a graphic example. An Orthodox young man, "Chezkel", is married with several children. Initially he convinces his wife to engage in various unusual sex acts, however with time he becomes bored with this.

One feature of addiction is tolerance: the drug no longer works and one is forced to take higher dosages in order to achieve the wanted effect.

Next, Chezkel makes some attempt to seduce the receptionist in the office where he works, however she shows no interest.

Then he looks for a girlfriend on the Internet, but still no luck. (I have a feeling that Chezkel is not exactly a Brad Pitt look alike.)

Finally, after a very unpleasant day at work, he decides to pay for sex. He goes to a strip club, where he meets, and pays, a young woman for attention. This is a typical case of using something harmful to self-medicate. This is the core of addiction.

Let's pause for a moment and consider how potentially catastrophic and reckless this type of behavior is.

Chezkel could easily acquire a sexually transmitted disease and pass that on to his wife.
He could impregnate another woman and be sued for child support.
He could very deeply hurt his wife's feelings. How would he feel if he found her having sex with other men?

Yet, in the grip of an addiction, Chezkel is in denial. He flies along entirely oblivious to all this. He may need to "hit bottom" - experience some very painful consequence - before he seeks help.

One technique used in sexual addiction is “Alert, avert, affirm”: as soon as you notice the behavior, alert yourself, then turn away, and affirm. The affirmation is, “I’m worthy of real love. I am a good person.” Or “I’m a great dad,” if you have kids.

I have found that making certain vows can be a powerful tool in developing self control. For example:

I hereby accept upon myself that if later this week or next week I knowingly unblock any webpage from Net Nanny software I will be required to fast 1 day during this month of --------- or next month of -----------.

The longer range solution is to overcome the depression and pain which is at the base of all this and to achieve true happiness.

83 comments:

Anonymous said...

The problem of promiscuity would be resolved if OJ went back to biblical polygamy. It was foolish to outlaw it just to appease european morality.

Besides it can be argued that in fact the entire institution of marriage and monogamy is retarded.

What would be wrong with everyone having sex with whoever they want, and taking care of whatever number of children result from such relations? Now that birth control technologies exist, there should nothing holding us back from engaging in mass orgies anyway.

The bible certainly supports such thought in spirit, hence why Jewish heroes like Solomon can get 700 wives and 300 concubines!

jewish philosopher said...

"The problem of promiscuity would be resolved if OJ went back to biblical polygamy."

Polygamy is a disaster. Check out how well the Mormons who do it manage.

http://www.whatloveisthis.tv/

"What would be wrong with everyone having sex with whoever they want"

STDs
kids with no fathers
single moms
jealously
depression ("heart break")

So, yeah, if you have nothing against mental and physical illness and poverty, it's no problem.

Anonymous said...

"Polygamy is a disaster. Check out how well the Mormons who do it manage"

You are a heretic. The Tanakh is 100% pro-polygamy. Every hero in the bible had polygamous wives. To say otherwise is denial of Torah MiSinai

My contention is polygamy is sexist. All the traditional restrictions are retarded, look at how these moronic restrictions restrict freedom with chains of giult. Monogamy is the worst digression mankind suffers from.

"STDs"

birth control

"kids with no fathers"

which is why fathers will be held responsible by their parents. DNA testing works, and besides I never said we should have irresponsible sex. Each procreating pair should be made responsible for what they make. And such children can be perfectly if not better be taken of in "plural" families.

Furthermore the above is a great reason for encouraging homosexual behaviour. Sexuality is developed behaviour. In schools children from puberty should be taught how to engage in responsible sexual behaviour, and where sexual relationships between same-sex partners should be encouraged in order to reduce the dangers of pregnacy. And for those children who do prefer to stick with heterosexual norms, they should be given pregancy courses.

"single moms"

which is why I said in above system each procreating pair will be made by law responsible, thoough each child can be taken care of in the plural families anyway

"jealously
depression ("heart break")"

Why should we be jealous? For that matter what is wrong with both you and your partners loving other people? Where would depression come from? If anything, life would be more enjoyable knowing we have so many people who love us

"So, yeah, if you have nothing against mental and physical illness and poverty, it's no problem."

JP why don't you come on to heimisex.com and shaindy.com ? You'll meet plenty of fellow orthodox jews who have discovered a happy and colorful world they regret ever missing out on!

Anonymous said...

Is that the vow you use to try and curb your addiction to making sexually suggestive comments to girls like Rasha?

Make your vow that you won't post on your blog for a month if you ask another girl if she wants cock.

The blogosphere will be that much better without your negligible and idiotic delusions floating about like so much human waste from the toilet that is your mind.

Garnel Ironheart said...

Dislike of polygamy predates the cherem of Rabbeinu Gershom. As far back as Hillel in Pirkei Avos one finds negative aspects towards polygamy.

As for sexual addiction, sex is like food. It is necessary for life but what differentiates the human being from the animal is the ability to control the drive and channel it into productive and healthy avenues. That's what Torah preaches - self-control of a natural function.

ZY Anon said...

You make this sound like its such a hugely prevalent problem.

Personally I don't know anybody like this, orthodox or not. (Granted that his is something that most people wouldn't talk about)

Could this be one of your straw men?

jewish philosopher said...

"Every hero in the bible had polygamous wives."

Which actually isn't true.

Jacob had four wives, however that was not his choice. His father in law tricked him.

Solomon had a huge harem, for which he was criticized.

The one and only voluntary, not condemned polygamist in Jewish history that I can think of is King David. One exceptional case in 4,000 years. It was always extremely rare to the best of my knowledge. Having a good relationship with one woman at one time is an enormous achievement.

I think what you're suggesting is a "swingers" type of lifestyle which is almost never successful in practice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swinging#Objections_to_the_swinger_lifestyle

"your addiction to making sexually suggestive comments to girls like Rasha"

In her dreams. She's probably HIV positive.

"Could this be one of your straw men?"

I hope so. However when I read blogs like unpious.com, I'm not so sure.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous at 9:30:

The only form of birth control that prevents the spread of STD's is condoms. But these are far from 100% effective. And often, people don't like to use them. High schools give condoms away now. Yet
teen pregnancy and STD'S continue to be a big problem.

While the Torah permitted polygomy, it appears to have been quite rare. Avrohom and Yaakov took multiple wives only reluctantly. Shlomo used marriage as a form of diplomacy. One of the Shoftim had multiple wives, but I do the impression I get from the novi is that he was using marriage to consolidate his authority. Historically, marriage was used as a political device.

It does oontribute greatly to your happiness if there is one person out there who thinks that you are special, no matter how average, typical, or mediocre you are. And it helps when this person shows you that you are special by saving something special, sex, just for you. This is one of the reasons why cheating hurts.

Nathan

jewish philosopher said...

Look at the "sexual revolution" in the United States since 1965 or so. It hasn't produced mass happiness. It has produced millions of abortions, millions of people with serious diseases (including a half million deaths from AIDS), millions of poor, lonely single moms, millions of poor, unhappy fatherless kids.

Swinging has been tried by a few people here and there since the sixties as well, but has never caught on too much. It's too much against human nature.

Shalmo said...

JP whether you intend to admit it or not, that above anonymous person is correct that a signifant segment, if not majority, of Orthodox Jews have made sites like heimsex.com and shaindy.com.

These are not sites made by any set of swingers, or by regular secular jews.

No, they are made by Orthodox Jews for Orthdox Jews and they are growing.

Despite your insistence that Jews are a light to the gentiles, the evidence keeps showing Jews are no more wicked and no more moral than anyone else.

I'm certain the same happens in practicing christian, hindu and other religious circles. However none of them claim to be the chosen people, have special neshamas or are a light to the nations.

If anything shouldn't we expect the so-called chosen people be superior in morals to the gentiles rather than emulating them?

Devarim says its our mission to both teach the nations about God, and to teach them knowledge on God's laws. In a nutshell we are to be the great shining example everyone looks towards.

Guess what? That is just not true because as the above sites demonstrate, Jews are no more righteous and no more wicked than the gentiles. And nobody, no nation, in 3000 years has ever bothered coming to Jewry to learn either about God or his laws.

The historical hellenized jews and today's secular jewish culture both show that the nations of the world do not emulate the jewish people at all, rather its the Jewish people who emulate the nations of the world. They don't take from us, we are the one who take from them. In which case the whole light unto the nations is bogus theology.

jewish philosopher said...

First of all, out of 2 million Orthodox Jews worldwide, what percentage are members of heimsex.com and shaindy.com?

Secondly, what type of normal person needs the Internet to find sex?

Thirdly, Islam is based mostly on Judaism, so I wouldn't get too anti-Jewish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_Judaism#Common_aspects

Off the Derech said...

Garnel: I'd love to see your source in Pirkei Avos (or Avot for Dati Leumi like yourself).

You're full of it, as always

onionsoupmix said...

It's pathetic that you have this addiction and feel the need to make vows to abstain from looking at porn and yet claim to be holier and better than other people. You and other hypocritical Orthodox Jews disgust the rest of us normal human beings who manage to live life without having to make fasting nedarim to avoid "unblocking NetNanny."

Stop preaching your idiocy to everyone until you fix your own problems.

zy anon said...

Shalmo said "that a signifant segment, if not majority, of Orthodox Jews have made sites like heimsex.com and shaindy.com"

I don't understand that statement. Are you saying that most orthodox jews are involved in sex sites? That would be obviously false. Or are you saying that most orthodox sex sites are made by orthodox (which wouldn't be surprising at all)?

Clarify your assertion please.

AS far as light unto the nations, I agree that this is self-serving spin, and every religion has some version of it. Each considers itself special and the only true religion.

Having said that, there is no question that the Hebrew/Judaic religion, both directly or via its proxy religions (christianity and islam) has had a profound effect on the world's ethics, philosophy and lifestyle. No, the world does not bow down to Jews. But most western culture owes their past to Judiasm.

jewish philosopher said...

"yet claim to be holier and better than other people"

Where exactly did I claim that?

onionsoupmix said...

You claim to be better than other people in every post in which you put down those whom you perceive to be less observant than you are.

You imagine that these less observant people are sexual addicts and only decrease in their observance so they can rationalize their sexual improprieties, while at the same time, you suffer from those addictions yourself while many of those whom you look down on have no difficulties in this area whatsoever. It's like some alcoholic fool who imagines everyone around him to be a drunk just so he can feel better about his own defects.

jewish philosopher said...

"You claim to be better than other people in every post in which you put down those whom you perceive to be less observant than you are. "

And every doctor who tells his patients to lose weight, exercise, stop smoking and so on is also claiming to be better? Not really.

OSM said...

Obese chain-smoking doctors are probably in the worst position to offer lifestyle suggestions to their patients. No one will take them seriously. Especially if those doctors frequently berate and deride those patients.

jewish philosopher said...

When the Federal government puts up a website like this

http://www.healthierus.gov/

I don't think that anyone understands this to mean that the Secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services or the President of the United States consider themselves to be unblemished examples of health and fitness, far superior to other mere mortals. The website is not about them, it's about health.

http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/

is not about me. It's about promoting truth and real happiness; fighting lies and harmful addictions.

Shalmo said...

zy anon said:

"I don't understand that statement. Are you saying that most orthodox jews are involved in sex sites? That would be obviously false. Or are you saying that most orthodox sex sites are made by orthodox (which wouldn't be surprising at all)?"

What I am saying is that the very fact that such sites exist show that Jewry are NOT a light unto the gentiles. OJ repeatedly boasts about how we are chosen, how we are the ones whom all the nations must turn to to learn about God and his laws, we the best and we are the arbitrers of morality to everyone else.

History testisfies this claim is just not true, and has never been true in any of the 3000+ year history of Jewry. Nobody comes to Jews to learn about God or his laws. Hellenized Jews and today's secular jewish culture show that in fact its the Jews who are influenced by everyone else.

The fantastic claims about the jewish nation throughout the Tanakh only hold true for those who believe its religion. For the rest of the world, Judea is simply put not a beacon of universal truth at all.

"Clarify your assertion please.

This is not in anyway meant to demean the many contributions individual Jews have made to secular and libertarian thought. Indeed those are things we should be proud of, though I must add they were all made by secular Jews not frum ones. Our contributions to the West came by those who went in opposition to the frum lifestyle (in opposition to Torah), not because of it.

It was a history of persecution that has always made Jewry stick with leftist causes anyway.

The claim that Jewish contribution is miraculous when compared to their small number can also be called out, because the same can be said of the various contributions to civil rights by the Zorastrian minority in South Asia. Minorities who are persecuted always end up being the ones who pave the wave for civil rights and rational thought.

"AS far as light unto the nations, I agree that this is self-serving spin, and every religion has some version of it. Each considers itself special and the only true religion."

I disagree that every religion has this. In hinduism, jainism, buddhism and practically all the eastern faiths there absolutely no presence of specialness attached. They unanimously accept that all paths to God are equal.

"Having said that, there is no question that the Hebrew/Judaic religion, both directly or via its proxy religions (christianity and islam) has had a profound effect on the world's ethics, philosophy and lifestyle. No, the world does not bow down to Jews. But most western culture owes their past to Judiasm."

Most of western culture owes its development to Ibn Rushd and Ibn Hayyam who fathered the secular thought we enjoy here. The Rambam's conception of God, which most Jews adhere to today, in particular is just a reimagining of what sufis like Ibn Rushd came up with. There are plenty of other esoteric concepts Maimonides took from them and incorporated into Judaism.

Everything boils down to a question of who took from whom.

The scribes of the Tanakh for example had no problem plagarizing babylonian creation mythology in the book of Genesis (hence why we even seen babylonian loans word in there), or the sumerian myth of Enmerker and the Lord Aratta which is where the tower of Babel story comes from. Or for that matter, the jewish god, YHWH, himself comes from the ugartic civilization.

Is everybody taking from the Jewish nation or is the Jewish nation taking from everyone else?

jewish philosopher said...

By killing people whenever given half a chance, are Muslims such a delightful light to world?

Anonymous said...

Nobody claims that muslims are a light to the world. The great gift of islam is that it shows people the madness all religions aspire to.

Shalmo said...

No red-herrings JP. The light unto the gentiles is a Jewish belief alone.

You said it yourself, quoting Carl Sagan, you rejected Jesus because extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs. Well since so much of the Tanakh is spent on bragging about the holiness of Banu-Yisrael, it would be nice if I could get some proof for it.

Can you please show the proof that all nations, or any nations come to Jewry to be taught either about God or his lawS?

The Tanakh depicts us as a holy nation all the world will come to learn from. When has this ever happened?

All I see is a history of a genocide every two generations. Jews are hated, no one learns anything from them.

So where does Israel being the center of human civilization come in? When has this ever happened?

jewish philosopher said...

"The great gift of islam is that it shows people the madness all religions aspire to."

In particular atheism, which has murdered far more than Islam.

"Well since so much of the Tanakh is spent on bragging about the holiness of Banu-Yisrael, it would be nice if I could get some proof for it."

Have you ever bothered to read it? How much is bragging - about 5 verses? Perhaps we deserve a little pat on the back for introducing humanity to monotheism, altruism, the alphabet and the weekend.

Anonymous said...

"In particular atheism, which has murdered far more than Islam."

In particular YHWH, who has murdered more than all of them combined. If you believe it exists.

"Have you ever bothered to read it? How much is bragging - about 5 verses? Perhaps we deserve a little pat on the back for introducing humanity to monotheism, altruism, the alphabet and the weekend."

Ha. Judaism introduced none of these things. Where's your proof?

As for islam, well, they can't even handle a cartoon. Lars Vilks is being hunted by kooks out to gain money from filthy rich al-qaeda criminals.

jewish philosopher said...

God practices tough love.

http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2009/08/kindness-of-suffering.html

Atheists are the most brutal people in history. Check out Stalin, Mao or Heydrich.

The innovations of Judaism are clear from history.

ZY Anon said...

Same arguments repeating themselves over and over again.

Shalmo, I was referring to the western religions.

I agree that Judaism borrowed from other faiths. But a Muslim should be careful about about throwing stones from glass houses...

Shalmo said...

JP:

"Have you ever bothered to read it? "

Um, you already know I was an orthodox jew. I have not only intensely read it, I have it memorized. My family encouraged us to do so.

"How much is bragging - about 5 verses?"

bullocks. There are entire passages in Deutoronomy, Numbers, Samuel and other places bragging about the holiness of the jewish nation. Who are you seriously trying to fool?

"Perhaps we deserve a little pat on the back for introducing humanity to monotheism, altruism, the alphabet and the weekend."

The Vedas demonstrate monotheism existed long long before Judaism. Most secular historians agree that Jewish monotheism comes from the works of Socrates, Platon and Aristotle. Monotheism is perhaps the oldest belief on the planet. There are plenty of independent example of it dating milleniums before Judaism

As for altruism, again I seriously suggest you seriously study the Vedas,Confuscionism and other cross cultural codes of morals that predate Judaism. Jewish morals were copied from the code of Hammurabi anyway.

Alphabets existed in China, and as sanskrit in India long before Judaism. This point in particular shows massive historical ignorance my friend. No one is gonna believe that Jews gave mankind the alphabet.

And the Babylonians and other has conceptions of a weekend, week, etc already. In fact the jewish sabbath was plagarized from the babylonian sapputu (though their had to do with months and so forth). Bare in mind that the babylonian gods were involved in conflict with the forces of nature and required the yearly festivals to rejuvinate their energies; in contrast to them the jewish deity, YHWH, would simply rest on the 7th day of the week to rejuvenate his energies

jewish philosopher said...

You were orthodox? when and where did you go to yeshiva? How many religions have you tried so far?

Also any chapters and verses about how great the jewish people are?

Anonymous said...

Shalmo:

Hamurabi's code has different laws for differnt classe of society. The Torah doesn't. That's a big difference right there. Hammurabi's code allows stes the death penalty for theft. The Torah doesn't. Hammurabi's code sometimes puts a child to death for the father's crime.

And tpo the best pf my knowledge, the Chinese never had an alphabet.

Anonymous said...

And the focus of Confucius was the Golden Rule, which is basicallt enlighteded self interest. That isn't altruism.

Abe said...

>>>Um, you already know I was an orthodox jew. I have not only intensely read it, I have it memorized. My family encouraged us to do so.

Shalmo,
Only your obsession for supernatural validation makes islam or any other religious zealotry more irrefutable than ultra-orthodox chareidism. The great commonality between your religions are that you both can't be right. But you both can be wrong. That you are incapable of recognizing that inconvenient fact is another vote atheism as the pithy expositor of the universe and exisence.

jewish philosopher said...

Abe, atheism is certainly nonsense. No one really believes in evolution.

http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2009/03/climate-change-and-evolution.html

Abe said...

>>>Abe, atheism is certainly nonsense. No one really believes in evolution.

Howl, snort and chortle!
Only a few rapacious fundies distrust evolution as a threat to their mendacious god belief.
For the rest of us normal folks, its a scientificaly proven and satisfying keystone of the origins of life.


http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html

http://records.viu.ca/~johnstoi/essays/courtenay1.htm

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,491147,00.html

jewish philosopher said...

Well, chuckle chuckle lol, then why aren't those sophisticated evolutionists demonstrating in favor of high carbon emmissions? Any scientist can tell you that stability just equals stagnation. It's a real whopping global disaster which causes life to advance. Without catastrophes we'd still be one inch long, have 16 legs and a brain as big as a bread crumb. A good hot warming may be just what we need!

However no one even suggests this. Because it would never work. Because evolution is a fairy tale.

Abe said...

>>>Well, chuckle chuckle lol, then why aren't those sophisticated evolutionists demonstrating in favor of high carbon emmissions? Any scientist can tell you that stability just equals stagnation...

Only a talmudicaly addled, logicaly impaired mind would tender carbon emissions as proof or refutation of evolution. Truly a testament to god's passionate assault on the wisdom of his chosen few.

jewish philosopher said...

As I said Abe - evolution? You know it would never happen and it never did happen either.

Only a pornographically addled, logicaly impaired mind would believe in evolution.

Truly a testament to cocaine's assault on the brains of of atheists.

Abe said...

>>>As I said Abe - evolution? You know it would never happen and it never did happen either.

Oh, but it did happen, it did.
Just peruse these websites. Because my websites can beat your websites any time!

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html

http://records.viu.ca/~johnstoi/essays/courtenay1.htm

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,491147,00.html

jewish philosopher said...

Oh, that's different. If it says in a website of course it's true.

Abe said...

>>>Oh, that's different. If it says in a website of course it's true.

Its as true as your website blog.



In fact much truer than yours because my websites have been validated by scientific scrutiny.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html

http://records.viu.ca/~johnstoi/essays/courtenay1.htm

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,491147,00.html

Like I said my website can beat the crap out of your website any time! Nyah, Nyah, ... Nyah, Nyah.

And remember, only the rebbe can save you from gehenim. Abandon your livtishe chareidism in favor of Lubavitcher Meshiachism now. Your immortal souls is at stake !

jewish philosopher said...

Your websites are validated by lunatics like these.

http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2010/02/portrait-of-professor.html

http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2007/09/portrait-of-scientist.html

Nyah, Nyah, ... Nyah, Nyah.

Anonymous said...

Abe:

But maybe you and Shalmo are wromng and JP is right. And just how does atheism explain the universe? And you're resorting to the logical fallacy of appeal to authority. I could counter by siting the massive fraud that scientists can and do engaga in, but I'm getting tried of repeating myself.

Nathan

Anonymous said...

More problems for evolution:


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19931456

Shalmo said...

Anonymous you have not done any serious study of the code of hammurabi with the mosaic law. Let me enlighten you:

http://www.specialtyinterests.net/codexhammurabi.html

Your claim that the chinese did not have an alphabet is laughably WRONG. Writing was in fact INVENTED IN CHINA long long long long before Judaism

And your reductionist approach to confuscianism as the golden rule is absurd and no serious student of chinese philosophy will take such a claim seriously.

To say that is all there is to confusiciansim is similar to me saying that the entire Torah can be summed up with the message that as long as you kill every other member of every other semetic tribe you will be rewarded with the promised land

Codes of altruism existed amongst humans milleniums before Judaism, and constantly lieing will not make this claim true.

One of the reasons the OTD rate has become so high is precisely because we are fed these absurd claims that are just not true; which can easily be proven wrong by any decent comparative religion study. A religion of self-worship, of worshipping all things Jewish, is sadly what Judaism today has become.

--

JP you are not answering my questions.

I want proof that Jews are a light unto the gentiles and that all the world comes to Israel to learn about God and his laws. If not then why should I believe we are the chosen people?

jewish philosopher said...

Shalmo, I just stand in open mouth awe of your light. Have you started your own religion yet? Or still Islam?

Anonymous said...

Shalmo:

I know that the Chinese had writing. They did not have an alphabet.

Anonymous said...

I checked your link about the code of Hammurabi, and I found all the differecnes between it an dthe Torah that I mentioned. There are parallels, but there are parallels between all legal systems.

Anonymous said...

And I admit to being ignorant about Confusius, but I couldn't find anything about Confucianism and things like charity.

And didn't Confusius live long after the Torah was given?

jewish philosopher said...

I don't know of a single law in Hammurabi which matches one in the Torah.

I mostly publish Shalmo, when I do, just because he's so nutty and funny.

zy anon said...

Let's be honest.

Rather than being a "light onto the nations", the Jewish people have been the magnet of more hate and contempt than any people in history.

There are many reasons for this, the main ones probably being their small numbers and their separateness, and the xenophonbia that this incites in human nature. Envy also plays a role in modern times, when the Jews have been disproportionately succussful, as in the Nazi era. Finally, the "christ killer" accusations have remained in the collective consciousness of Christianity.

There is also probably a large amount of anti-Islam sentiment, but it can't manifest itself as with antisemitism due to the large numbers of Muslims.

At the same time I would utterly reject the claim that the Jews bring anti-semitism upon themselves, that its "their fault". This is simply blaming the victim as a way of assuaging ones own guilt and evil instincts. One wouldn't dream of blaming the Armenians or the Somali christians for their own slaughter.

As long as Jews remain a distinct and small minority in the world, antisemitism will remain alive and well.

jewish philosopher said...

In "The Emperor's New Clothes" a child says "But he hasn't got anything on,".

http://www.andersen.sdu.dk/vaerk/hersholt/TheEmperorsNewClothes_e.html

In regards to other religions (including atheism) loyal Jews are that child. Therefore we have been hated, by Greeks, Romans, Christians, Muslims, Nazis and Communists.

As far as illuminating the world, as I have pointed out, we indeed have. We have introduced monotheism, altruism, the alphabet and the weekend to mankind; one tiny religion has uniquely had a huge impact on human history.

http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2009/06/gods-wisdom.html

Abe said...

>>>In regards to other religions (including atheism) ...

Atheism a religion? A calumny fostered only by those chareidim that empower the adage, "Misery Loves Company".

ZY Anon said...

Lets for argument's sake assume that your are correct about the 4 items you mentioned. But those contributions were given over 3000 years ago. They are no longer the exclusive domain of the Jews. And many other contributions have been made by other peoples. So why should the world look at Jews as a beacon? Yes, even your favorite religion, Islam contributed things. So you trumpet biblical things as though they are the only things that matter after 3000 years, who cares? We owe cave man the discovery of fire. Or stone age man tools. Does that mean we should honor cave man or stone age man as a light unto the world?

Abe said...

>>>But maybe you and Shalmo are wromng and JP is right. And just how does atheism explain the universe? And you're resorting to the logical fallacy of appeal to authority. I could counter by siting the massive fraud that scientists can and do engaga in, but I'm getting tried of repeating myself.
Nathan<<<

It is possible that I could be wrong, but very improbable. However, I allow falsifiability in my thinking and that is the essence in the difference between our beliefs. If science proves me wrong, my conclusions will change. Chareidi faith, in contrast, leaves no room for fallibility, which extends its leaden ethos to oppress its victims with myriad rituals and meaningless prohibitions. (many of which make chariedism a laughing stock --kosher water, anyone?)
In regard to the fallacy of appeal to authority, not all authority is fallacious. Chareidi authority is illegitimate and that makes its appeal fallacious. Peer reviewed scientific authority for the most part is reliable and therefor is a trusted arbiter.
See: http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-authority.html

Scientific fraud exists, but it is hardly massive, and does not prosper, unlike chareidi duplicitous hocus-pocus. Scientific authority is self- limiting. Scientific fraud, when exposed, is rejected and the perpetrators are denounced as charlatans and never permitted serious future consideration. Chareidism suffers no such scrutiny. Kosher water will forever be an infallible precept of god's investiture and who knows what other future craziness you can conjure up.

jewish philosopher said...

"Atheism a religion?"

it may be a mental illness

"So why should the world look at Jews as a beacon?"

cite a worthwhile spiritual, moral or ethical idea not found in the Torah or Talmud

Anonymous said...

Your understanding of the concept of evolution is so simplified and flawed I can barely even begin to comprehend the arrogance.

Evolution is based on the study of repeatable results and the fossil record, your faith is based on the mistranslations of thousands of years of people seeking to use other's faith to impose their will upon the world.

To deny what we have discovered about the universe in which we live in order to simplify your notions of existence or the justify your belief in our importance to the cosmos is foolish and selfish.

I think Sagan puts things well:

http://openpit.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/214811main_earthmoon-516.jpg

"Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there-on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot.

Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.

The Earth is the only world known so far to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment the Earth is where we make our stand.

It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known."

jewish philosopher said...

"Evolution is based on the study of repeatable results and the fossil record"

actually evolution is very clearly bogus

http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2008/03/evolution-science-hijacked-by-atheism.html

and Sagan's depraved beliefs provide the perfect excuse for murder since life is valueless according to him

jewish philosopher said...

"Chareidism suffers no such scrutiny. Kosher water will forever be an infallible precept of god's investiture and who knows what other future craziness you can conjure up."

nonsense from an ignoramus. Rabbis have been debating everthing for 2,000 years.

Abe said...

>>>nonsense from an ignoramus. Rabbis have been debating everthing for 2,000 years.<<<

And have too often plagued their minions with ufalsifiable decrees like prohibitions on non-kosher water. Quite an example of an illegitimite authority !

jewish philosopher said...

A lot more legitimate than the authority of today's professors, who gun each other down at staff meetings.

http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2010/02/portrait-of-professor.html

Anonymous said...

Abe:

Did you ever try googling "Scientific Fraud" and seeing the results?

And Haeckel's faked drawings found their way into textbooks for a century. Haeckel confessed to the fraud during his lifetime,yet the drawing show up. And Gould only went public wiht the fraud when a lawsuit was imminent. All these textbooks where written and peer reviewed.

Now, a lot of fraud finds its way into the peer reviewed research. Just do the research I suggested.

Now, as far as the fossil record is concerned, evoltuonists since Darwin have been trying to explain why evolution, which is species to species change is pretty mcuh absent from the fossil record. Darwin said it was because fossil are rare. Gould said that fossil's aren't rare, so it must be punctuated equlibrium. And now, even some famous transitional fossils have truned out to be questionable. Archaeopteryx status as a bird ancestor is now being questioned. And it is doubtful whether theropads in general are ancestors of birds. And tiktaalik is no linger a tetrapog ancestor.

Anonymous said...

This is interesting:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2010/mar/15/morality-evolution-philosophy

Abe said...

>>>A lot more legitimate than the authority of today's professors, who gun each other down at staff meetings.<<<

More dopey logic from the home of the sage of logical ill repute.
Because one or two psychotic professors kill associates, thefore all professors are illegitimate.
Way too much time spent on gemara and too little time on Bertrand Russel.

Abe said...

>>>Did you ever try googling "Scientific Fraud" and seeing the results? <<<

So what? When fraud is exposed, it is denounced and the perpetrator excoriated by his peers. In the chareidi religion, there is rarely any observation of fraud because it is unfalsifiable. Your religion is rife with fraud and you don't even know it and furthermore don't even have the means expose it because it is infallible.
Additionaly, please tell us what percentage of peer reviewed scientific experimentation or observation has subsequently been found to be fraudulent and what was the effect of the fraud on the population of this planet?

>>>Now, as far as the fossil record is concerned, evoltuonists since Darwin have been trying to explain why evolution, which is species to species change is pretty mcuh absent from the fossil record.<<<

You are obviously ignorant of evolutionary facts.

"...Prothero discussed those fossils last month at the American Museum of Natural History in New York, along with transitional fossils that were announced since the book was published, including the "fishibian" and the "frogamander..."
"...At least hundreds, possibly thousands, of transitional fossils have been found so far by researchers. The exact count is unclear because some lineages of organisms are continuously evolving...."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,491147,00.html

ZY Anon said...

Abe, you are dealing with ignorant and boorish conspiracy theories, its not worth your time (unless you have a lot to waste :)

These people know nothing of the scientific method, let alone the facts.

jewish philosopher said...

"This is interesting:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2010/mar/15/morality-evolution-philosophy"

The article states:
"Start with the fact that humans are naturally moral beings."

This is absolute nonsense. If that were true, why do we have governments? Even with close to a million law enforcement officers, state of the art methods at their disposal and a vast prison system locking up millions of people, we still have quite a bit crime in the United States. I looks like a lot of people are behaving very unnaturally.

Of course this atheist is merely saying this to assure us that he'll be good without God. Baloney.

http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2008/10/god-save-king-why-we-need-both.html

"Because one or two psychotic professors kill associates, thefore all professors are illegitimate."

Because Talmudic law is too burdensome for you, therefore all rabbis are illegitimate. Wishful thinking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wishful_thinking

"you are dealing with ignorant and boorish conspiracy theories"

It's actually atheists who apparently believe in conspiracies, believing that all Jews conspired to fabricate Jewish history.

http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2006/12/truth-of-judaism.html

Anonymous said...

screw the article. how can someone call them selves an orthdox jew liek yourself and then sit there and commit the highest of sins and speak lashon hoarh about tova schriber? it is said in the talmud, "to make someone blush is as bad as killing them" you should be ashsamed of yourself and your lies you have said to discourage a young writter. You do this becasue she does not follow your agenda of orthdox judaism, and that is not fair to her. you have no right to bare false witness, and still try to come off as you are a rightout person. you should be ashamed of yourself, get some humality

jewish philosopher said...

This is a little bit off the topic, but may I ask: Why is it OK for her to criticize my religion but it's not OK for me to criticize her?

The woman (and her father) are obviously lunatics. Talk to anyone in Detroit; they are the town crackpots.

Anonymous said...

>>>ZY Anon said...
Abe, you are dealing with ignorant and boorish conspiracy theories, its not worth your time (unless you have a lot to waste :)

These people know nothing of the scientific method, let alone the facts.<<<

You're right, but it takes only a few minutes of my time to dispose of these ignorant simpletons. They're rarely worth more.
Besides, it reduces some of the energies spent on illicit drugs and internet porn. :)

jewish philosopher said...

Here's a challenge to atheists:

Cite one reasonable proof that evolution happened or that God does not exist.

Abe said...

>>>Cite one reasonable proof that evolution happened... >>>

Here's one, but there are many others.

...Here again, the evidence from fossils is overwhelming. In the deepest rock layers, there are no signs of life. The first fossil remains are of very simple living things. As the strata get more recent, the variety and complexity of life increase (although not at a uniform rate). And no human fossils have ever been found except in the most superficial layers of the earth (e.g., battlefields, graveyards, flood deposits, and so on). In all the countless geological excavations and inspections (for example, of the Grand Canyon), no one has ever come up with a genuine fossil remnant which goes against this general principle (and it would only take one genuine find to overturn this principle...

http://records.viu.ca/~johnstoi/essays/courtenay1.htm

>>>...or that God does not exist.>>>

Can't be done for the same reason that you can't prove that fairies or leprechauns don't exist.

"...Now let's imagine that we have a conversation one day and I say to you, "I believe in Leprechauns. You cannot prove that Leprechauns do not exist, therefore they exist." You actually have heard of Leprechauns. There are lots of books, movies and fairy tales dealing with Leprechauns. People talk about Leprechauns all the time. Leprechauns even have a popular brand of breakfast cereal. But that does not mean that Leprechauns exist. There is no physical evidence for the existence of Leprechauns. Not a single bit. Therefore, it is obvious to any normal person that Leprechauns are imaginary.

If you think about it, you will realize that there is no difference between God and Leprechauns. Lots of people talk about God as though he exists, but there is no actual evidence for God's existence. For example:..."

http://godisimaginary.com/i17.htm

jewish philosopher said...

The fossils do not indicate evolution. This is because in the fossils, even in vertabrate marine fossils which should be fairly complete, we never find the gradual development of a new limb or organ through the random trial and error process of variation and natural selection.

The fossils indicate catastrophism, sudden global changes, not evolution.

Regarding proofs of God, the existence of even one natural object demonstrating complexity and purposefulness proves God exists.

Anonymous said...

"the existence of even one natural object demonstrating complexity and purposefulness proves God exists"

i disagree becease complexity and purposefulness are human words. we deicide what is compelex purposeful. they ar our ideas. just becuase we think somthing is complex and purposeful dosn't allow us to conclude the existence of a supreme being. who knws? it could be many beings, like aliens who arn't devine. idon't see why we have any more evidence to say its God than we to say it was space trvellers from the 7th galaxy.

do you say that no evolution happend at all? nne? zero?

Abe said...

>>>The fossils indicate catastrophism, sudden global changes, not evolution.<<<

Ignorance of science, geology and evolutionary process.

>>>Regarding proofs of God, the existence of even one natural object demonstrating complexity and purposefulness proves God exists.<<<

Complexity, if anything, ratifies evolution. It is no proof of god. It is an inference and in fact a subversion of the precission of the logical process and entirely erroneous.
A technique of attempting to make the impalapable fit the presumption of god's existence.
As for purpose, I'll leave that ethereal to the psychiatrists to explore.

jewish philosopher said...

"we deicide what is compelex purposeful"

No. Certain phenomena are clearly in and of themselves purposeful. For example, scientists searching for extraterrestrial life consider a narrow band radio signal to be clearly purposeful and therefore a sign of intelligent life.

http://www.seti.org/Page.aspx?pid=558#a3

"idon't see why we have any more evidence to say its God than we to say it was space trvellers from the 7th galaxy."

Who created the space trvellers from the 7th galaxy? Ultimately, there must exist a transcendent intelligent designer.

jewish philosopher said...

"Ignorance of science, geology and evolutionary process."

Nope.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/28/science/28mari.html?_r=2&th=&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&emc=th&adxnnlx=1164720474-9wG3xm996ABK8/LrDkrUgg

"It is an inference and in fact a subversion of the precission"

I think you're drunk.

Anonymous said...

Jacob,

How'd a guy as ugly as you find a woman? What's wrong with your wife that she had to settle for you?

How's that addiction to porn coming? Enjoy masturbating after your wife went to bed last night? I wonder what your preferred form of porn is. As fucked up as you are, it's probably not plain vanilla men and women fucking. You're probably into really kinky stuff, most likely involving degradation. You probably fantasize about being a sub. Bottom's up!

jewish philosopher said...

That comment was so profound and insightful, that I may have to spend the rest of my life savoring it.

Thank you Anonymous Atheist! I salute you!

Are you friends with Ronnie and Tova Schreiber by any chance? I sense a bit of their genius.

Anonymous said...

I am from detroit and i have met the schriber family on numerous occasions and its not about her talking poorly of the orthdox relgion, but how you have made up false rumors and lies to bash her because she insults you. Your a man older and wiser by years of excperince, why must you degrate yourslef and lower yourself to answer a crtic of the relgion? i doubt you go to reform temples and tell them that there all doing drugs and selling their bodies or anything of that nature. when you wear your kippah you show that you are below god and under gods hallacha, but by bearing false witness you potray jewish people as a whole in a bad light.

jewish philosopher said...

Well, let's check this out for a minute.

Tova describes herself as being a Bais Yaakov graduate.

http://righteousrasha.blogspot.com/

Yet she writes:

There is much illogic and inconsistency in Jewish practice and belief.

I reject the Oral Law

I also feel like the idea that God is "loving" is a farce. God is not so. God commands genocide, theft, rape, atrocities, racism.

http://righteousrasha.blogspot.com/2009/10/breaking-free.html

This clearly places Tova in the category of a heretic, whom we are commanded to hate, to pray for her destruction three times a day and to celebrate her death. After death she will suffer eternal damnation.

See Chofetz Chaim 8:5, Yoreh De'ah 345:5 and Rosh haShanah 17a. Also see

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0003_0_02999.html

for a more authentic text of birkas haminim:

For the apostates let there be no hope. And let the arrogant government be speedily uprooted in our days. Let the noẓerim and the minim be destroyed in a moment. And let them be blotted out of the Book of Life and not be inscribed together with the righteous. Blessed art thou, O Lord, who humblest the arrogant.

Based upon this, I see no problem with criticizing Tova, as well her father who supports her opinions, and wishing them both a speedy death. She mentions have attempted suicide 4 years ago and I hope she will be more successful in any future efforts.

Off the Derech said...

JP: You're a real sick man. Why not go after the Orthoprax and the closet atheists among you. Hey, are you a I sure there are no hidden atheists among the Modern Orthodox goyim? Hey, there's no shortage of MO blogs and I'll bet at least half of them are closet atheists. Maybe it's time for an all-out McCarthy witchhunt. Besides, you should hate them more than ex-frummies because they're fooling people. Hey, I knew closet kofrim who served people treif all the time. At least people like Tova and myself have the decency to be upfront about our beliefs and aren't oiver lifnei iver.

P.S. I know for an absolute fact that Garnel is an atheist.

P.P.S. LAY OFF TOVA!!

jewish philosopher said...

I am all for hunting secret atheists.

http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2008/11/hunting-secret-atheists-beginners-guide.html

Actually, it seems like Tova's obsessed with me. I made a couple of comments on her blog like six months ago and she can't stop yapping about it. I think blogging is not really for her.

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