Friday, February 12, 2010

The Universe Proves There is a God


[Galaxy Triplet ARP 274 from the Hubble Space Telescope 04/03/2009]

The existence of our universe irrefutably demonstrates the existence of an incorporeal and incredibly powerful Creator.

Nothing physical can come into existence from nothing spontaneously; all objects are merely rearrangements of preexisting substances, but are never really new.

The universe cannot be infinitely old. The universe is constantly changing and change cannot continue forever. After however many billions or trillions of years the stars would have to burn out; everything would have to wear out, wind down and disintegrate. Just as a burning fire must have been lit at some point in the past or a working clock must have been started at some time so too at some point in the past the universe was created and set in motion by a tremendously powerful, eternal and incorporeal Creator, who exists forever, unbound by time and space.

34 comments:

Alex said...

Careful:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Do_particles_pop_in_and_out_of_existence

Alex said...

I googled on
"pop in and out of existence"

Anonymous said...

You really have no understanding of anything you post about, do you?

Philo said...

How do you measure complexity exactly? Where did the creator come from?

"After however many billions or trillions of years the stars would have to burn out; everything would have to wear out, wind down and disintegrate."

Wait a second. Did Jacob Stein just concede that there is an inevitable end to the universe?

jewish philosopher said...

Alex, I think you are referring to virtual particles, which are not actually observable.

http://www2.slac.stanford.edu/vvc/theory/virtual.html

jewish philosopher said...

"Did Jacob Stein just concede that there is an inevitable end to the universe?"

I'm saying that without God, it would have to have died already.

Anonymous said...

"The universe cannot be infinitely old. The universe is constantly changing and change cannot continue forever. After however many billions or trillions of years the stars would have to burn out; everything would have to wear out, wind down and disintegrate."

I wonder how you even know this to be true. Was it from the unique wisdom of the Bible, or from that atheist science monster?

jewish philosopher said...

"I wonder how you even know this to be true."

From the second law of thermodynamics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics

Anonymous said...

Unless the universe is an open system.

jewish philosopher said...

Since "universe" means "everything", it's not open.

Philo said...

JP,

The dictionary isn't a binding law of physics. You know very well there is a possibility of other universes. But of course, you'd still be going to shul if they proved it anyway.

jewish philosopher said...

All those other universes combined would also be closed so the problem is still unsolved.

bankman said...

who created the watchmaker?

flawed logic....

Larry Tanner said...

The Universe Proves There Is A God...except that it does no such thing. What's the proof? That the universe exists? That the universe is billions of years old and unfathomably huge? That the earth is one small planet on one of the arms of our galaxy?

All that's proven is that there is physical law. If you want to call that "God" and worship it, then go ahead. It's called 'idolatry,' and your doing it.

jewish philosopher said...

"who created the watchmaker?"

He's eternal as explained in the post.

"What's the proof?"

Read the post.

Larry Tanner said...

"Read the post."

I did. And the question still stands, what's the proof?

You say: Nothing physical can come into existence from nothing spontaneously.

That's not true. Physical particles at the quantum level pop in and out of existence all the time. This is a fact and your incredulity is not proof that there's a god.

You say: all objects are merely rearrangements of preexisting substances, but are never really new.

Really? How do you know this? In any case, according to your logic, our present universe is "merely" a rearrangement of preexisting substances. Here again, you are not offering proof that a god exists.

You say: The universe cannot be infinitely old.

Why not? And even if true, why are the explanations that draw on physics and physical law of any less merit that "God did it." At least we know that there are indeed physical laws, while we do not know that a god exists.

You say: The universe is constantly changing and change cannot continue forever.

So what? God seems to be nowhere in this or necessary in this.

You say: After however many billions or trillions of years the stars would have to burn out; everything would have to wear out, wind down and disintegrate.

Again, so what? God seems to be nowhere in this or necessary in this.

You say: Just as a burning fire must have been lit at some point in the past or a working clock must have been started at some time so too at some point in the past the universe was created and set in motion by a tremendously powerful, eternal and incorporeal Creator, who exists forever, unbound by time and space.

Nice hypothesis, but what you call a "Creator" could just as well be "Physics." You have offered no reason to think whatever sets our universe or the "first" universe (whatever that might or might no means) must be anything with intelligence, foresight, and agency.

Off-topic: An interesting scientific article on the illusion of free will: http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2010/02/04/0915161107.full.pdf+html

So, where's the proof? Waiting....

bankman said...

"He's eternal as explained in the post."

that's convincing to you? I guess so....but not to me or many others.

maybe "the universe" is eternal

flawed logic

Philo said...

But JP, can I not say that the subatomic particles needed to produce the big bang, existed for eternity?

jewish philosopher said...

"That's not true. Physical particles at the quantum level pop in and out of existence all the time."

I think you are referring to virtual particles, which are not actually observable.

http://www2.slac.stanford.edu/vvc/theory/virtual.html

"maybe "the universe" is eternal"

Impossible as per the second law of thermodynamics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics

"can I not say that the subatomic particles needed to produce the big bang, existed for eternity?"

They would have to have reached entropy an infinitely long time ago.

Philo said...

"They would have to have reached entropy an infinitely long time ago."

But wouldn't God also have to, or are you suggesting that God is property-less object?

Let me ask you something JP. Even if you were able to prove that God exists, why should we dedicate our life to Him? And try to do it without Pascal's wager.

Crawling Axe said...

Re: G-d: Of course G-d is property-less. That’s the whole point. You cannot define G-d or assign a specific property to Him. All the “properties” assigned to G-d in our tradition are only assigned to His actions.

Re: Universe’s origins: who says Universe is like a clock (i.e., its design shows that it was made by a designer)? Maybe it’s like a kangaroo — it was born as a result of two kanga... I mean, Universes getting together?

jewish philosopher said...

"are you suggesting that God is property-less object?"

I tried to describe God here.

http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2009/12/higher-power-as-i-understand-him.html

"why should we dedicate our life to Him?"

Because you don't want to burn in hell forever.

http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2009/06/jewish-heretics.html

Or because you are overwhelmed with love for Him.

http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2009/04/real-happiness.html

Crawling Axe said...

You should dedicate you life to G-d, because He is the only and absolute truth “out there” and “down here”. I.e., imagine whatever reason you’d live your life for (pleasure, truth, righteousness, doing good, etc.) — G-d is all that (concentrated in a point in Him), but in infinity. And every time you do His Will, you bring all of that here.

Nothing to do with burning in hell or going to heaven.

Philo said...

"Because you don't want to burn in hell forever."

Two things.

1) The above quote is an idea expressed in Christian Gospels such as Luke.

2)That is Pascal's wager.

jewish philosopher said...

I'm not making a wager that you might go to hell; I am making a statement that you will.

Jesus was a Jew; do you realize that Christianity's most sacred ritual is simply a distortion of making kiddush and hamotzei Friday night?

Philo said...

The Torah does not mention hell. And please do not try to tell me the Talmud was written before the Gospels (Talmud anyways gives a very vague picture of 'hell'. More of like a revelation of what you have done, then an eternal punishment--but it's irrelevant. No one can claim the Talmud is divine)

jewish philosopher said...

You asked why we should dedicate our lives to God and I told you.

Anonymous said...

JP, give me an example of a person who repented and decided to dedicate himself to god out of fear of burning in hell forever.

You repeat this assertion, and aside from the theological question itself regarding the existence of hell, your psychology isn't sound either-- punishment can act as a deterrent when people experience it or witness others getting it. In this instance, its only the dire unsubstantiated warnings of a blogger or of a book written thousands of years ago.

jewish philosopher said...

Anonymous, give me an example of a person who quit smoking out of a fear of lung cancer.

People do have a strong tendency to self destructive behavior. There are more suicides than murders in the US.

However there are probably people who quit without seeing someone die of cancer. They could just read a book and believe it.

"its only the dire unsubstantiated warnings of a blogger or of a book written thousands of years ago."

I see the Talmud as being strongly substantiated.

http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2006/10/judaic-literature-providing-proof-of.html

Anonymous said...

Larry:

Virtual particles have to disappear before they are detected, as per the uncertaninty principle. The univrse is detected, so you can;t use virtual particlea as an answer. And we know the universe hada beginning from the expansion rate, and the cosmic background radiation. You, know, the big bang.

Anonymous said...

"Anonymous, give me an example of a person who quit smoking out of a fear of lung cancer."

From the ACS quitting smoking website: http://www.cancer.org/docroot/PED/content/PED_10_13X_Guide_for_Quitting_Smoking.asp

"Health concerns usually top the list of reasons people give for quitting smoking."

People quit all of the time, for various reasons-- among them the health effects. "The books" have no effect by themselves-- we all see or hear or read of smokers getting sick with lung cancer or emphysema all of the time.

Nobody has heard of, seen, or read an eyewitness account of somebody being punished in hell.

This doesn't say that this fear is enough for smokers. As you said, many deny, or simply can't break the addiction. But those who do stop do so for reasons that are very tangible and real. They don't do it out of nebulous ideology or theory.

jewish philosopher said...

People read about cancer and stop smoking. People read about hell and stop eating pork. It's the same thing.

Larry Tanner said...

So true.

People read the bible and become atheists.

People study the very many world religions and denominations and become secular humanists.

People study the evidence of nature and physics and become naturalists.

jewish philosopher said...

I would say that people generally choose whichever religious beliefs appeal to them emotionally. It is due to this that no global concensus can be reached.

As I have pointed out, atheism appeals primarily to addicts, communists and scientists.

http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2009/05/atheism-in-nutshell.html

I think in today's increasingly addiction ridden world, it's future looks bright