Saturday, November 14, 2009

A Transforming Moment



[Samson my hero]

Last week I had the privilege of helping my seven year old son with his homework. He is studying the Bible, specifically the book of Genesis, and the Orthodox Jewish prayer book.

It struck me how remarkable it is that Samson is learning from the earliest age that he has a Creator. The world was made by an intelligent being for a meaningful purpose. Furthermore we can turn to our Creator in prayer. We can have a relationship with Him.

These concepts are essential to our mental health. The Twelve Step programs are based on these ideas. Belief in God and prayer are perhaps the most important positive methods to cope with stress.

I recently read a book: Tweak by Nic Sheff. The book is the most fascinating and informative memoir of addiction I have ever read. I’ve read the book about five times. At the end of the book Mr. Sheff is clean and sober, however he remains an atheist, which is how his father raised him. This made me very suspicious about how long his recovery would last. Unfortunately, my suspicions were correct.

I wish Nic all the best. He’s a brilliant, sensitive young man. I hope that he soon finds the beautiful, life giving concepts which my little boy is thank God learning now.

72 comments:

Alternative Genesis said...

JP, you are insane. You cannot possibly be saying atheism (which I am not an atheist btw) is some sort of disease. Even though I am not an atheist, I respect them highly, that they are able to live their lives free and with choice.

jewish philosopher said...

I would describe atheism as being a false and dangerous cult. In Western countries, it appeals primarily to people who have harmful addictions.

http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2009/05/atheism-in-nutshell.html

Alternative Genesis said...

The link you gave is a whole bunch of BS. Of course there are bad atheists, but how many did it in the name of atheism? They all had other sinister political agendas.

Harmful addictions? How are they harmful? Because Leviticus says you can't do it?

jewish philosopher said...

What difference does it make in whose name atheists commit crimes? There are atheists who kill for the sake of spreading atheism, however more commonly they kill, steal, etc for all kinds of reasons, but wouldn't do it if they believed in God.

http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2008/07/atheists-in-their-own-words.html

Harmful addictions include cocaine, alcohol, sexual compulsions, etc.

Alternative Genesis said...

JP,

BS. BS. BS. There are many deeply religious people who were mass murderers. Did God stop Luther?

Seriously. Just propmote your faith without making false attacks against those who don't.

jewish philosopher said...

Oh, so all religions are equally good - how about Islam? Or some other smaller suicide cults? Or fundamentalist Mormons who rape 13 year old "brides"?

If tomorrow everyone would convert to atheism, humanity would probably be extinct in a century.

http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2008/10/god-save-king-why-we-need-both.html

EnslavedByNeurons said...

"I respect them highly, that they are able to live their lives free and with choice."
Famous atheist William Provine would say we don't have free will.

Anonymous said...

When I mention to atheists that if they succeed in their quest of making the world atheistic, if history is any indication, then we can expect to see a marked increase in mass murder, they respond that it is okay because the motivating factor wouldn't be atheism. So atheists have told me that mass murder is okay, as long as atheism isn't the motivating factor. I find that a little troubling.

Alternative Genesis said...

If you watch and read Will Provine's works, you would know he means volitional/biological free will. And he is somewhat correct, even when it comes to regular free will. If you are indoctrinated as a child, and your parents telling you will go to hell if you don't believe a certain doctrine, it messes with your mind, and thus your free will. I can testify personally to that.

Anon1 said...

In the bible, Lot was raped by his two daughters while drunk. Noah wonders around nude while drunk. Two of Aarons sons are killed by God, after bringing sacrifices while drunk. I'd say these people had a drinking problem.

I suppose they were atheists, too.

jewish philosopher said...

You don't have to be an atheist to be an addict, however an atheist in non-communist countries is probably an addict.

I've only found one decent atheist.


http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2008/01/chandra-good-atheist.html

bankman said...

"It struck me how remarkable it is that Samson is being brainwashed from the earliest age that he has a Creator."

makes sense

Abe said...

>>>I've only found one decent atheist.

Using J.S.'s logic there are probably scores of thousands of drug abusers in the chareidi community, per Rabbi Benzion Twerski's indictment of Yeshiva drugies ... "Marijuana, often considered a "soft" drug, can be found in too many yeshivos today..."
http://www.ou.org/publications/ja/5758/spring98/twerski2.htm

And thousands of chareidi pedophiles and sexual abusers.
"Dov Hikind ...has collected more than 1,000 complaints and the names of 60 accused sexual predators..."
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/13/nyregion/13hikind.html

Leading some to commit suicide.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/suicide_groom_twist_pa15C1Z5nGPyHIYj18xCNI

Their loathsome actions doesn't end with drug abuse. With primitive biblical morality, it is not difficult for chareidi terrorists to match their muslim bretheren in applying quranic justice.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1256799061280&pagename=JPArticle%2FShowFull

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Goldstein

Because of their sins, it appears that god is punishing chareidi society with an epidemic of drug and sexual abuse.
You need to do more teshuva and perhaps god will decrease your appetite for pedophelic sex and drugs.

jewish philosopher said...

Bankman, Nic Sheff was taught evolution created him. That was clearly a big success. Now therapists are desperately trying to get him to believe in God.

Abe, we're better than anyone else, in spite of all your anti-Jewish conspiracy theories.

http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2008/09/orthodox-jewish-crime.html

But since you're into this, here's a video you'll love.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSNkA0kjmS0

Alex said...

"Abe, we're better than anyone else, in spite of all your anti-Jewish conspiracy theories."

Is Abraham Twerski in on this conspiracy?

Also, can you AT LEAST say /STATISTICALLY SPEAKING/ we're better than anyone else.

Not that I love that either, but it's better than the way you put it.

jewish philosopher said...

Like every anti-Semite, Abe keeps yapping about Jewish criminals who are strangely invisible to law enforcement. I can watch Iranian tv for that.

Abe said...

>>>Abe, we're better than anyone else, in spite of all your anti-Jewish conspiracy theories.

No, you're not better than anyone else . Perhaps you're a bit better in suppressing the dissent in the chareidi community, but that, like catholic sexual crimes are now seeing the light of day.
And you're correct about a conspiracy and its not a theory-- not in the general Jewish community community anyway, just in the chareidi community where the conspiracy is doing god's work to conceal drug and sexual abuse.

jewish philosopher said...

Don't get all self righteous. Everyone knows that it's Wall Street Jew bankers and Federal Reserve chairmen who sent all America's money to Israel, now that the Holocaust hoax has dried up.

And by the way, don't blog if you've had too many mushrooms.

Alex said...

JP, can you tell us what this book is about:

The Shame Borne in Silence: Spouse Abuse in the Jewish Community (Mirkov Publications, 1996) -- R' Abraham Twerski

jewish philosopher said...

Sure, I read it. And "Jewish" means just that - all types of Jews not only orthodox.

Anyone involved with domestic violence will confirm that it is far rarer in the orthodox world. Check this out - how many spousal homicides occur annually in the us? Thousands. The spouse is always the first suspect. Othodox Jewish spousal homicides in recent decades - 0.

Abe said...

>>>Don't get all self righteous. Everyone knows that it's Wall Street Jew bankers and Federal Reserve chairmen who sent all America's money to Israel, now that the Holocaust hoax has dried up.

No, Wall Street bankers and Federal Reserve chairmen don't engage in sexual abuse, but chareidim do and the frequency of chareidi crimes can no longer be swept under the rug. ..."Now, a growing number of haredi Jews in Brooklyn say they do not think they can get justice from the rabbinical courts, which in several high-profile cases have exonerated people who were later criminally convicted of child abuse..."
http://www.jewishjournal.com/thegodblog/item/ultra-orthodox_jews_coming_forward_with_abuse_allegations_20091016/

Could it be that you Jacob Stein are a contributor to chareidi sexual abuse and drug abuse in your community? I mean, you must have done something very awful that god has seen it neccesary to deliver such social plagues on the chareidi community. There can be no other explaination.

jewish philosopher said...

Of course, thanks to the Internet and the expanding numbers of secret atheists, drugs and sex abuse will increase unfortunately. However even with that how many ultra orthodox have been convicted of sex with a minor? About 3?

Abe said...

>>>However even with that how many ultra orthodox have been convicted of sex with a minor? About 3?

Much more than that. And the count would have been even more alarming had the perfidy of fundamentalist recalcitrance not persuaded thousands of chareidim not to deliver sexual abusers to the secular authorities. ..." The efforts by Rabbi Eisenman, Lesher and Neugarten, rare steps against sexual abuse in a religious community, took place within a few blocks of each other in Passaic, a middle-class suburb with a growing haredi community 10 miles west of Manhattan in northern New Jersey...
Following more than a decade of sensational accusations of rapes and molestations committed by members — often leaders — of Orthodox Jewry, and increasing criticism of the Orthodox community’s leadership for ignoring or attempting to cover up the accusations..."
http://www.thejewishweek.com/viewArticle/c36_a17232/News/New_York.html

Jacob Stein, you and your ilk are the provacateurs of god's wrath upon the hapless chareidim. Had it not been your abstinence in prostrating yourself to god's demand for more teshuvah, these unfortunate damnations would not have been visted upon your congregations by the most holy one on high.
Hashem yerachem !

Abe said...

>>>Of course, thanks to the Internet and the expanding numbers of secret atheists, drugs and sex abuse will increase unfortunately. However even with that how many ultra orthodox have been convicted of sex with a minor? About 3?

Don't blame it on the atheists. Blame it on yourself and your cadre of sexual abuse deniers. You're worse than holocaust deniers who really can't harm anyone today. Their just a bunch of jew hating kooks. You on the other hand, by your insistance that sexual abuse is almost non-existant in the chareidi community, contribute to and perpetuate the outrage.
..."Of some 700 child sexual abuse cases brought in an average year, few involved members of the ultra-Orthodox Jewish community ...But in the past year, there have been 26. District Attorney Charles J. Hynes has brought charges against a variety of men — yeshiva teachers, rabbis, camp counselors, merchants and relatives of children. Eight have been convicted; 18 await trial..."
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/14/nyregion/14abuse.html

There are undoubtedly hundreds of additional chareidi pedophiles who have little fear of being arrested and convicted for their crimes. With the likes of Jacob Stein, why should they? Hashem yerachem.

jewish philosopher said...

So how many ultraorthodox have been convicted of having sex with a child? 3?

I think you should worry more about the Israeli spy problem. Also about the Mossad involvement in 9/11. I'm sure aware of these coverups.

Abe said...

>>>So how many ultraorthodox have been convicted of having sex with a child? 3

Trying to focus on the small rashi print to satisfy your strange sexual tastes in the Lot and his daughters debauchery narrative, must be having deleterious effect on your eyesight. ..."But in the past year, there have been 26. District Attorney Charles J. Hynes has brought charges against a variety of men — yeshiva teachers, rabbis, camp counselors, merchants and relatives of children. Eight have been convicted; 18 await trial..."
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/14/nyregion/14abuse.html

And that's just eight that we know about. An additional 18 await trial amd probably hundreds more.
Hashem yerachem

Anonymous said...

A few years ago I read that there were 70 people in prison in New
York State who requested kosher food. This is out of a population of hundreds of thousands. Now 1% of the population of the United States is in prison. So, if crime rates were the same in the Orthodox Community, I would expect to see a lot more than seventy.

jewish philosopher said...

Eight have been convicted of what?

How many ultraorthodox have been convicted of having sex with a child?

I think you should worry more about the Israeli spy networks you secular Jews are famous for. There are probably thousands.

bankman said...

"How many ultraorthodox have been convicted of having sex with a child?"

Of course its not widespread (convictions) Its mesira!! LOL

How can you get convictions if everyone covers up? wont tell authorities?

Its more widepsread than you think - if you dont know/believe that you are hiding your head in the sand.

ABE said...

>>>Eight have been convicted of what?
How many ultraorthodox have been convicted of having sex with a child?

I Suppose that might be correct in the twisted world of chareidi jurisprudence where only actual penetration is considered sexual molestation in the opinion of Holy Rabbi Pinchus Scheinberg. ..." the powerful rabbi who was close to Margulies ( of the infamous Torah Temimah molestation scandal). (He) contacted several of Kolko’s alleged victims, listened to their complaints, and told them that what happened to them was not abuse—that there needed to be penetration and that because there was none, their claims were not actionable...."

http://nymag.com/news/features/17010/index3.html

But, if you wish to have no concern about the saftey of your children in Chareidi yeshivas, you most certainly would not want to publicize this:
http://www.theawarenesscenter.org/clergyabuse.html

Jacob Stein, I hope that consider this before continuing to send your children to your chareidi yeshivas. With the continued publicization of the chareidi horrors, what you should have known, might get you named as an undicted co-conspirator in the chareidi sexual abuse scandals.
Hashem yerachem.

jewish philosopher said...

So there is basically no proven ultra-Orthodox pedophilia.

And just by the way, the lady who has the awarenesscenter is the same one who told Oprah that her parents sacrificed children.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI5W0mfaPd8

I think I'll stick with the 9/11 conspiracies.

Alex said...

At the 2:05 mark, Polin says, "Not all Jewish people sacrifice babies."

Whew, what a relief!!

Alex said...

Does this Bukharian Jew count as Orthodox? -->

http://www.thejewishweek.com/viewArticle/c36_a15232/News/New_York.html

"a 35-year-old Bukharian doctor, Mazoltuv Borukhova, and her cousin, Mikhail Mallayev, 51, were found guilty in a Queens courtroom of first-degree murder and conspiracy in the 2007 death of Borukhova’s estranged husband, 34-year-old orthodontist Daniel Malakov. " -- " “We are ashamed of what happened and simply don’t know what to make of it,” said Rabbi Shlomo Nisanov, the spiritual leader of Kehilat Sephardim of Ahavat Achim and former president of the Vaad Harabanim of Queens. “You can’t blame the actions of one person on the community as a whole, but the fact that one of us could go to such depths shows that there has been a breakdown in our value system.”

jewish philosopher said...

That's kind of a tricky one.

Dr Borukhova was not privately Sabbath observant.

Also Borukhova and her cousin Daniel Malakov tried to emphasize their alleged religious beliefs as part of their defense.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/08/nyregion/08notebook.html?_r=1

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/22/nyregion/22dentist.html

They immigrated to the US as adults. I would assume that neither ever attended religious schools. Mallayev lived in Atlanta, Georgia, not a big Orthodox center.

So bottom line, were Borukhova and Mallayev actually Sabbath observant, kosher observant and members of an Orthodox synagogue at the time of the murder, 10/28/2007?

My impression based on media accounts is that Borukhova and Mallayev were traditional but not Orthodox Jews, as is common among Bukhari Jews. (I had once two Bukhari foster children living with me in Israel, by the way.)

Correct me if I'm wrong.

jewish philosopher said...

Sorry for the typo, that should read "her cousin Mikhail Mallayev" not Daniel Malakov.

jewish philosopher said...

"your parents telling you will go to hell if you don't believe a certain doctrine, it messes with your mind"

What if they're right?

Abe said...

>>>So there is basically no proven ultra-Orthodox pedophilia.

Yeah, and those all-male bath houses, spiritual pleasure-palaces known as mikvahs, are really just a diversion to assuage those unbearable urges to which all those indicted chareidim have fallen prey. I suppose once you've been caught, a nice dip in the holy water surrounded by male genetalia is all that's left.

Too bad we depraved sex-crazed, drug-addicted athiests can't share those hedonistic pleasures with our chareidi buddies. We have so much in common.

Abe said...

>>>So there is basically no proven ultra-Orthodox pedophilia.

I suppose so, especially if you're under the halachic influence of Rabbi Pinchus Scheinberg, fondling young boys is OK as long as there is no anal penetration. But chareidim have been been circumventing that prohibition for centuries. Metzitza b'peh is a nice substitute and just one of those chareidi guilty pleasures.
Real suck-ups -- those chareidim, wouldn't you agree?
But what do I know? I'm just a law abiding, god fearing, drug-free teetotaling atheist.

jewish philosopher said...

You are so unimaginative Abe.

How about Vicki Polin telling Oprah about Jewish rituals in which babies would be sacrificed? That's really awesome.

http://www.lukeford.net/profiles/profiles/vicki_polin.htm

Abe said...

>>>How about Vicki Polin telling Oprah about Jewish rituals in which babies would be sacrificed? That's really awesome.

What about it?
Jews havn't sacrificed their kin since Abraham's unfortunate confrontation with god on Mt. Moriah.
But, its can't be as bad as Rabbeim sucking an infant's penis. Ohh... I forgot, you call it a mitzvah, it must be OK. Ugh.

jewish philosopher said...

So there are some crazy anti-Jewish stories you like and some you don't. I wonder how you decide exactly.

Abe said...

>>>So there are some crazy anti-Jewish stories you like and some you don't. I wonder how you decide exactly.

Its quite simple but difficult for a true-believing chareidi like yourslf to accept.
Vicki Polin, while undoubtedly a troubled soul, -- her enumeration of chareidi sexual crimes is credible because they can be easily corroborated by many other credible sources i.e., court records, newspapers, TV etc. And they're not anti-Jewish per se. They're spotlighted because for decades, just like catholic sexual-abuse, they've been deliberately ignored and concealed by too many noteworthy rabbeim who granted and continue to grant these predators comfort and support to prey on more children.
Its not happening in chareidi society? Well,yes it is and you dismiss it at your childrens' peril.

jewish philosopher said...

"court records"

Where? Proportionally, there should be about 1,000 Orthodox Jewish registered sex offenders in the US. How many are there? 10? 20?

http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2008/09/orthodox-jewish-crime.html

"TV"

Oprah's on TV. Does it have to night time TV?

I thought the human sacrifice story was pretty good. I would stick with that. What a way to liven up your next Lag BaOmer bonfire, for example.

Anyway, Abe, I know atheists are praying for a Catholic style sex abuse scandal to hit the Orthodox community and turn people off from Judaism. Sorry, ain't gonna happen. We're just not into that.

Veronica said...

"Mallayev lived in Atlanta, Georgia, not a big Orthodox center."

With three kollels, it's not that small, either.

jewish philosopher said...

He doesn't look to me like a kollel guy.

Again, unless someone has more info, these people sound tradition, but not orthodox, so I would not count this as an orthodox homicide.

bankman said...

so let me get this straight.

1) orthodox jews abuse and molest children as much if not more than regular folk.

2) orthodox jews cover up these crimes, and refuse to report them to authorities.

3) becasue of this, actuall convictions, and registered sex offenders within the orthodox jewish community are lower than average.

4) as a result of this data, orhtodox judaism is the one true religion.

nothing to say but, LOL!! ROTFL!!

Abe said...

>>>Where? Proportionally, there should be about 1,000 Orthodox Jewish registered sex offenders in the US. How many are there? 10? 20?

Correct, there should be, although I can't vouch for that 1000 figure. But, because of years of secrecy and dissimulation by noteworthy rabbeim, these predators have been harbored in their communities under the imprimatur of halachic falsity. However ,hopefully, that is beginning to change. The outrage has reached such proportions that it can no longer be censored. That's why Orthodox Jewish political representatives have said this: ...“I’ve been shocked and overwhelmed at the magnitude of the problem,” said Mr. Hikind, an Orthodox Jew and a Democrat who represents the predominantly Orthodox community of Borough Park..."
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/13/nyregion/13hikind.html
If you want to know the names of convicted, indicted, or accused chareidi sexual abusers and pedophiles, just scroll down that list.

>>>Anyway, Abe, I know atheists are praying for a Catholic style sex abuse scandal to hit the Orthodox community and turn people off from Judaism. Sorry, ain't gonna happen. We're just not into that.

Atheists don't celebrate the sad degradation of chareidi judaism. Its an unhappy day when orthodoxy won't stand up to the miscreants in their own community. But that depravity won't by itself be the sole catalyst for invalidation of charieid judaism. You're doing a fine job in that arena. You're a good reason and perfect poster-boy for going and staying off the derech.

jewish philosopher said...

I don't know why everyone gets this story wrong. We DON'T have sex with children. That's the Catholic thing and so whimpy. We either sacrifice babies to Satan (Viki Polin) or bleed them to death for Passover bread (Iranian TV). That's really awesome sh--!

bankman said...

"We DON'T have sex with children"

keep your head in sand....it suits you.

jewish philosopher said...

How many years have Hella Winston

http://nymag.com/news/features/17010/index4.html

Vicki Polin

http://www.theawarenesscenter.org/The_Awareness_Center/Home.html

and Paul Manilow

http://mrroshyeshiva.blogspot.com/

been banging away desperately on this "rabbis are pedophiles" baloney? And how many Orthodox Jews have been convicted of pedophilia? Let alone actual rabbis who lead congregations? Maybe 1% of the rate in the general population for sex offenders?

I would stick with the human sacrifice stories. Way cooler. Did you know that humans taste like pork? You can use the same recipes. Some mustard would be good.

bankman said...

For how many years have the FBI tried to put the mafia behind bars?

must be that the mafia does not exist, since only a small % of Italian - Americans are behind bars. (and thats the US govt, not 3 lone rangers)

head in sand......

jewish philosopher said...

Abe, just by the way, why would an atheist worry about child abuse anyway? So what if one souless bag of chemicals, motivated by purely pedetermined natural forces, sits on another souless bag of chemicals? Everything is really meaningless and insignificant.

jewish philosopher said...

"For how many years have the FBI tried to put the mafia behind bars?"

Bankman, that shows how ignorant you are. The Mafia was harassed from day one by law enforcement. Al Capone when to prison in 1929.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Capone#Conviction_and_prison

Almost all mafia bosses ended up in prison or killed by their own colleagues.

onionsoupmix said...

Where? Proportionally, there should be about 1,000 Orthodox Jewish registered sex offenders in the US. How many are there? 10? 20?
What kind of a person makes this sort of claim without actually doing the research, JP?

In Wesley Hills, NY, out of 14 separate sex offenders, 4 are clearly orthodox judging by appearance alone. Look it up on the NY registry. That means that almost one third of the sex offenders in your little town are "frum".

But yeah, don't let the facts get in the way of your rhetoric. I'm sure there are only 10 orthodox offenders in all of America. And that the frum lifestyle leads people to behave more morally.

onionsoupmix said...

Where? Proportionally, there should be about 1,000 Orthodox Jewish registered sex offenders in the US. How many are there? 10? 20?
What kind of a person makes this sort of claim without actually doing the research, JP?

In Wesley Hills, NY, out of 14 separate sex offenders, 4 are clearly orthodox judging by appearance alone. Look it up on the NY registry. That means that almost one third of the sex offenders in your little town are "frum".

But yeah, don't let the facts get in the way of your rhetoric. I'm sure there are only 10 orthodox offenders in all of America. And that the frum lifestyle leads people to behave more morally.

jewish philosopher said...

There are no registered sex offenders in Wesley Hills, NY.

http://criminaljustice.state.ny.us/nsor/search_index.htm

onionsoupmix said...

Use the zipcodes your wiki page provides for wesley hills.

10952, 10977

jewish philosopher said...

Those zips include about 5 other villages, genius.

Now I think you'll find four or five more guys in Brooklyn and one in Lakewood. I'll let you do the math.

onionsoupmix said...

Oh, so you don't like the data, now, huh? Wiki gave those zipcodes for your town so I used them.

Now let's do the math, shall we? There are about 400,000 ultra orthodox Jews in America. Out of 300 million people. That's 0.001 percent. The vast, vast majority of ultra-orthodox Jews live in NY.

The NY registry has 28,000 registered sex offenders. That means there should be about 28 orthodox sex offenders who appear to be ultra-orthodox. You really think that a search of the entire NY registry won't find 28 guys with payos and a beard?

Please stop with your ridiculous assertions that frum people are somehow better and holier and more moral.

jewish philosopher said...

Onion, excuse me, but you don't even know what a zip code is.

Now this is my calculation:

600,000 Orthodox Jews in the US

http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/world-jewish-population.htm#_Toc26172077

10 registered Orthodox Jewish sex offenders in the US

http://www.familywatchdog.us/

ratio: about 1 per 60,000


Total American population:
About 300,000,000

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html#People

Total number of registered sex offenders:
over 491,720

http://www.registeredoffenderslist.org/blog/sex-offenders/child-molestation-statistics/

ratio: about 1 per 610

Conclusion: A guy with no yarmulke is about 100 times more likely to be a sex offender than a guy with a yarmulke. Frum people are somehow better and holier and more moral.

onionsoupmix said...

Sorry, JP, your math is again wrong.

I am only including Ultra-orthodox statistics, because as you have explained to us so often, modern orthodox people are on the way to atheism. So your first stat is off as it includes all orthodox denominations and there could be many more MO Jews on the registry who do not look visibly orthodox. Strike one.

Your second statistic about there being only 10 offenders in all of America is not supported by the site you bring- I don't see how you can search by ultra-orthodox status on that site. Strike two.

Total stats fail. But thanks for playing. You can go hide your head in the sand.

But please, before you go, tell us this: there are quite a few people working now with ultra-orthodox victims of sex abuse. Here's an example: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3696923,00.html

So, this whole program with an entire team of prosecutors and counselors is for the victims of only 10 people? Really? What are you smoking.

onionsoupmix said...

Sorry, JP, your math is again wrong.

I am only including Ultra-orthodox statistics, because as you have explained to us so often, modern orthodox people are on the way to atheism. So your first stat is off as it includes all orthodox denominations and there could be many more MO Jews on the registry who do not look visibly orthodox. Strike one.

Your second statistic about there being only 10 offenders in all of America is not supported by the site you bring- I don't see how you can search by ultra-orthodox status on that site. Strike two.

Total stats fail. But thanks for playing. You can go hide your head in the sand.

But please, before you go, tell us this: there are quite a few people working now with ultra-orthodox victims of sex abuse. Here's an example: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3696923,00.html

So, this whole program with an entire team of prosecutors and counselors is for the victims of only 10 people? Really? What are you smoking.

jewish philosopher said...

Onion, you can make up anything you want, you can imagine that all of New York State is in Wesley Hills and include only men with long black coats as Orthodox, but you haven't refuted my statement:

A guy with no yarmulke is about 100 times more likely to be a sex offender than a guy with a yarmulke.

Abe said...

>>>Abe, just by the way, why would an atheist worry about child abuse anyway? So what if one souless bag of chemicals, motivated by purely pedetermined natural forces, sits on another souless bag of chemicals? Everything is really meaningless and insignificant.

If its meaningless and insignificance that's the benchmark, then chareidi ethos is the criteria that permits rampant pedophelia and sexual abuse in its community. Even a sentient bag of chemicals deserves better.

Abe said...

Think its only the chareidi communities in the USA where drugs are very much abused? England is suffering no less of adrug-abuse torrent by the holy chareidim. " Rabbi Baruch Chalomish accused of swapping cocaine for sexual favours...Chalomish, a part of Greater Manchester’s Orthodox Jewish community, denies two charges of supplying cocaine but admits two counts of possession...."
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article6922184.ece

jewish philosopher said...

You didn't answer the question, for obvious reasons.

However it's interesting psychologically how anti-Semites are always fabricating stories of Jews hurting small, innocent children. In the middle ages, it was the blood libel. In modern times, pedophilia. There seems to be something fascinating about the evil Jew contrasting with the most innocent, silent, helpless victim - a little child. The lack of any credible evidence makes no difference - it's a fantasy Jew haters will constantly dream of.

Abe said...

>>>You didn't answer the question, for obvious reasons.

I didn't answer the question because its the same old dopey polemic, since it implies that atheists are devoid of a moral focus because morality only derives from god.
However the question delivers a deafening statement about the immorality of chareidi culture because it disregards and discounts authoritative evidence of sexual assaults on chareidi children.
The question is obviously (obvious to those who havn't been transformed into true-believing automitons) rhetorical prattle meant to divert attention to the pernicious effect of halachic inscrutability. That rejection of modern civil criminal justice in favor of rabbinic jurisprudence is the source of assaults on defensless children. It permits the strict control of the masses by the "gedolim". Just conveniently and falsely call your opponent anti-semitic and voila !, the myriad evidence of child sexual abuse in the chareidi community is easily discounted.
However, the veil of obfuscation is being lifted. Sexual crimes are becoming transparent as more victims emerge from the shadows of chareidi control. This is just the beginning : ..." Now, a growing number of haredi Jews in Brooklyn say they do not think they can get justice from the rabbinical courts, which in several high-profile cases have exonerated people who were later criminally convicted of child abuse.... "
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/14/nyregion/14abuse.html

Lets hope the tenacious legal assault on the catholic church bears similar fruit ..."after certain individuals within the Hasidic Jewish community coming forward to accuse their abusers, many more have found themselves able to make similar accusations...
http://www.nyclergyabuse.com/Clergy_Abuse/Sexual_Abuse_in_the_Hasidic_Community.aspx

jewish philosopher said...

Atheists murder millions with no guilt, then try desperately to pin a bogus blood libel on the "evil Jews". Very impressive.

bankman said...

"a growing number of haredi Jews in Brooklyn say they do not think they can get justice from the rabbinical courts"

I have been impacted by these "courts" on a very personal level and can say that it is so grotesque, the corruption favortism and secrecy, that I would not be surprised to find that this awful, corrupt system pushes many to leave the fold.

JP, you should do a post on how corrupt the "bet din" system is....I wonder what the goyim would say about this secret, undergound court system.

jewish philosopher said...

"Rabbi Baruch Chalomish accused of swapping cocaine for sexual favours."

I would assume he's a drop out who is no longer Orthodox, like you. How many Orthodox rabbis have friends named "Nasir Abbas"?

"I have been impacted by these "courts" on a very personal level"

When? Your wife kicked you out because you're a bum and took custody of the kids?

bankman said...

"When? Your wife kicked you out because you're a bum and took custody of the kids?"

no

Anonymous said...

This is OT but still interesting:

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v462/n7270/full/462162a.html

So Darwinism was involved in the formation of Chinese Communism as well as Nazism.