Wednesday, July 09, 2008

"Who is like your people Israel, a unique nation on earth " II Samuel 7:23



Can anyone familiar with us imagine a father in the Orthodox Jewish community treating his sons the way the father described in this video clip (5:38 point) treated his sons?

In today's society, with it's growing culture of debauchery, fueled by the monkey myth, this is undoubtedly becoming more and more common. (Sexual abuse increased 83% between 1986 and 1993.)

Secular society is a society of monsters.

Imagine a city the size of Houston, Texas where there is no murder, no rape, and almost no violence of any type. [Houston actually experiences several hundred murders per year.] Imagine that there is almost no abortion or sexually transmitted disease. Imagine that there is almost no drug abuse or alcoholism. There are no homeless people. Imagine that 90% of the children in this city are raised from birth to adulthood by both biological parents who are married to each other. Imagine that girls are not being molested on a daily basis by stepfathers because the girls don’t have stepfathers – they have real fathers living with them.

This place does exist now – it’s called the Orthodox Jewish community. Is it any wonder that we, tiny, hated and persecuted, have become the mother of most other religions - Christianity, Islam and Reform Judaism?

25 comments:

Frumlibertarian said...

Unfortunatly, this happen in the Orthodox Community as well as the secular world. I have several friends who come from Orthodox families (Not abusive) who are in A.A. and N.A. fighting addictions.

Also, about 10-15 years ago The Orthodox Community in Winnipeg, Manitoba placed my Aunt and Uncle into a de facto Cherim because my family went to the Police instead of the Beis Din to expose a Rabbi who was Molesting kids.

Breeding Monsters is not limited to Secular society.

jewish philosopher said...

Can you give me the name of a single Orthodox Jew was is a convicted incestuous, homosexual pedophile? That's going pretty far.

Frumlibertarian said...

just a small example: http://www.thejewishweek.com/viewArticle/c36_a7198/News/New_York.html

jewish philosopher said...

Kolko was not convicted
of any sexual offence. That sounds just a little different than the guy in this video clip. And bear in mind that the Kolko incident is probably about the worst pedophile scandal to hit the Orthodox community.

Frumlibertarian said...

it's not the worst scandal to hit the Orthodox community I sent you some websites earlier to that effect. What is it like to see Orthodoxy through rose colored glasses?

jewish philosopher said...

I am not seeing Orthodoxy through any colored glasses. As everyone knows, rabbis do not have sex with children. Actually, they kill children and use the blood for our special Passover matzos. But that's only when the rabbis are not busy stealing communion wafers and stabbing them.

As you can imagine, things can get pretty hectic for those old rabbis with their long white beards. The secret is aerobics and strength training.

Frumlibertarian said...

“Imagine a city the size of Houston, Texas where there is no murder, no rape, and almost no violence of any type. Imagine that there is almost no abortion or sexually transmitted disease. Imagine that there is almost no drug abuse or alcoholism. There are no homeless people. Imagine that 90% of the children in this city are raised from birth to adulthood by both biological parents who are married to each other. Imagine that girls are not being molested on a daily basis by stepfathers because the girls don’t have stepfathers – they have real fathers living with them.

This place does exist now – it’s called the Orthodox Jewish community.”

You're not talking to an Atheist or a white supremacist here. I'm a Frum Yid! I'm Ba'al Teshuva, I was raised secular and CHOSE to become religious. I spent years in Yeshiva in New York and heared enough stories and in several cases saw first hand. Adultury, Drug and Alchohol abuse, Theft, Assault and other crimes from Frum people.

http://www.theawarenesscenter.org
http://www.jacsweb.org
http://www.ou.org/index.php/abstinence/story/stds/

You are looking through rose colored glasses if you believe this. No community is perfect in the manner in which your describing. Not even Orthodox Jews. It doesn't take a genius to know this. It just takes someone not blind to reality!

jewish philosopher said...

Regarding the Awareness Center, check this out. The other two links seem to be irrelevant to any wrong doing in the Orthodox community.

My personal judgment is that on a scale of 0 to 10, where 0 is the ultimate level of selfishness, cruelty and materialism while 10 is the ultimate level of generosity, kindness and spirituality, I would give the average American a 2, the average Orthodox Jewish American a 6 and the average Orthodox Israeli an 8.

By the way, give me the name of one American Orthodox Jew ever convicted of murder, forcible rape or armed robbery and you win $500.

Frumlibertarian said...

You don't think that the OU making a webpage advocating abstinence due to STD contraction relates to Orthodoxy?
If there wasn't a problem with STD's in Orthodoxy, as you believe, why whould the Orthodox Union even bother making a webpage about it??
Joseph Zitrenbaum, a Hasidic man convicted of attempted murder. I'll take that $500 dollars now!

Izgad said...

Jacob Feuerwerker http://www.drc.state.oh.us/OffenderSearch/Search.aspx

He is an Orthodox Jew from Cleveland who "accidently" shot his father-in-law seven times. I was given this information courtesy of a frum couple, who work for the Ohio Prison system. Can I know have my $500? My friends want a cut of it.

jewish philosopher said...

"If there wasn't a problem with STD's in Orthodoxy, as you believe, why whould the Orthodox Union even bother making a webpage about it??"

Ask them.

"Joseph Zitrenbaum, a Hasidic man convicted of attempted murder. I'll take that $500 dollars now!"

Attempted murder is not murder.

"He is an Orthodox Jew from Cleveland who "accidently" shot his father-in-law seven times. I was given this information courtesy of a frum couple, who work for the Ohio Prison system. Can I know have my $500?"

Provide evidence that he was Sabbath observant and a member of an Orthodox synagogue at the time of the crime, together with your mailing address, and the check is in the mail.

alex said...

JP, the way you delivered this post, you were practically begging for lashon hara about the frum community. Perhaps if you had a conversation about this issue with Rabbi Abraham Twersky, whom I'm sure you respect and who wrote "A Shame Born in Silence", you wouldn't make these dares.

Izgad said...

"Provide evidence that he was Sabbath observant and a member of an Orthodox synagogue at the time of the crime, together with your mailing address, and the check is in the mail."


Would it be enough if I provide you with the name and phone number of a certain nice frum lady, who covers her hair and whose husband is a rabbi? She works for the prison system and knows the man.

jewish philosopher said...

"Perhaps if you had a conversation about this issue with Rabbi Abraham Twersky, whom I'm sure you respect and who wrote "A Shame Born in Silence", you wouldn't make these dares."

I have the book. I don't think it contradicts this post.

"Would it be enough if I provide you with the name and phone number of a certain nice frum lady, who covers her hair and whose husband is a rabbi? She works for the prison system and knows the man."

That would be helpful, thank you.

jewish philosopher said...

Something which fascinates me is the fact that the Orthodox Jewish community in the United States includes about 600,000 members. Out of those, the number who has ever been convicted of a violent crime, sexual offense, drug offense or driving while under the influence is miniscule and disproportionately very small. I don’t think anyone disputes this. Nevertheless, whenever I point out on this blog the obvious moral and ethical superiority of the Orthodox community, I am invariably attacked, generally by modern Orthodox Jews. There must be some psychological explanation for this irrational self loathing, but I fail to understand it. It is very unpleasantly reminiscent of traditional anti-Semitism – the attitude that “of course the Jews APPEAR to be so nice, but that’s a just a fa├žade, a cover for the all the evil they are secretly involved with”.

shoshi said...

"Can anyone familiar with us imagine a father in the Orthodox Jewish community treating his sons the way the father described in this video clip (5:38 point) treated his sons?"

Of course this happens. In the "awareness center" (link in the previous posts) you will find the testimony of a woman who was regularly abused by her jewish orthodox, widely respected father.

In the kolko case, what strikes me is the way that rabbis hushed it up and threatened the victims with chereim...

These things do not only occur in the jewish orthodox community, but also in the catholic church, etc.

The problem of pedophiles/incest exists, and the perpetrators will always find an exuse that suits them. In a religious society with rigid values, (as the jewish orthodox one), they will hide behind their respectability and denigrate the victims. In a society of "debauche", they will explain that what they do is natural: But no society is safe from them... (although they are not as numerous as some media hypes would make us believe)

jewish philosopher said...

" you will find the testimony of a woman who was regularly abused by her jewish orthodox, widely respected father"

I said "son". A woman cannot be anyones son.

"In the kolko case, what strikes me is the way that rabbis hushed it up and threatened the victims with chereim..."

What strikes me is that everyone assumes the guy was guilty, although he has so far never been convicted of a sex offense. I know this sounds terribly biased, however I think that even men and even Jews should be assumed innocent until proven guilty.

jewish philosopher said...

"Jacob Feuerwerker http://www.drc.state.oh.us/OffenderSearch/Search.aspx"

I just spoke on the phone to Mr. Feuerwerker. He explained to me that he is a modern Orthodox Jew who became Orthodox in college in 1974. According to his version of events, he killed his ex-wife's father in self defence in 1983. He and his wife had divorced, he came to his ex-wife's home to visit his child and his ex-wife's father, who was a retired police officer, drew a gun. Mr. Feurerwerker disarmed him and shot him. The court convicted him of murder and he spent the next 20 years in prison.

Other than the well known case of Yigal Amir, this is the only Orthodox Jew I am aware of who was convicted of murder within the past century. There may be two or three others somewhere.

I don't think this very rare tragedy contradicts what I wrote in this post, although it does qualify izgad for the $500 prize.

Izgad said...

Thank you.

jewish philosopher said...

Izgad, I'm sorry, but I lost your address.

Izgad said...

I was thinking that, rather then give the money to me, maybe you could donate it to Project YES or another such worthy cause. http://www.rabbihorowitz.com/PYes/index.cfm

Rabbi Horowitz has been a leader in talking about problems within the Orthodox community, including violence and abuse.

jewish philosopher said...

That's very generous of you. Will do.

jewish philosopher said...

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Izgad said...

So you are a man of your word. I give you credit.
All the best.
Benzion Chinn

jewish philosopher said...

I think what may be happening is that sometimes I will make a statement that Orthodox Jews are morally and ethically superior to secular people. People who have been influenced by the popular liberal media have been conditioned to believe that it is rude to suggest that one ethnic group is superior to any other. Those people immediately object and start screaming, “What are you talking about! Superior my foot! It happens here too.”

Well, yeah, it happens here too. However I think there is a slight different between a murder once every 50 years and a murder once every 5 days and there is a difference between 10 alcoholics and ten thousand alcoholics.

This blog is called “Jewish Philosopher” not “Politically Correct Philosopher".