Tuesday, July 15, 2008

Atheism and Intervention

In the process of researching atheism, one thing I have become convinced of is that it is not based on anything rational.

Evolution is ridiculous. The Documentary Hypothesis is likewise baseless. The entire philosophy is a scam.

Considering this, why do we find a small but seemingly growing number of Orthodox Jews who convert to atheism? What is the attraction?

The answer is simple: sex. In my experience, these people are all suffering from a sexual addiction. They have lost control of their lives and this is basically no different than any alcoholic or heroin addict. In most cases, the Internet plays an important role in this, although work friends, romance novels, etc can also be important.

Many victims of this addiction will vehemently deny that they have any problem, however denial does not make the addiction go away. This video clip depicts a successful businessman who is in the terminal stages of alcohol abuse yet denies that he drinks heavily. He died soon after this documentary was made.

Many victims of this addiction will claim that atheism is true and they are doing the right thing. Rationalizing is a common defense mechanism in addiction, and that’s all atheism actually is. Reasoning with the addict usually has little affect.

Needless to say, as in any addiction, the family and friends of the addict may become codependents who enable the addict.

In my humble opinion, the best solution for this problem is to transfer the addict to a treatment facility where he or she will get help. If an addict doesn’t agree to go voluntarily, an intervention may be the best solution.

Intervention is somewhat similar to the concept of cherem. All the relatives and friends of the addict gather together in love and unity and tell the addict that they are completely cutting him off unless he accepts the gift of treatment today. This is not always successful, however it often is. In addition, this means that the family of the addict can continue with their lives undisturbed regardless of what the addict chooses to do.

The following series of video clips gives an idea of how this type of procedure is done. Clip 1 Clip 2 Clip 3 Clip 4 Clip 5.


Samuel Skinner said...

Evolution is false? Well, aside from the fact that it isn't (crack open a text book) there is also the more humorous proofs.

I have never heard of the documentary process.

Hah! My ancestors didn't give up religion for sex- and neither did I. Of course, that is a bit like making eating against your religion... insane on soooo many levels.

As for your solution.... In USA you go to treatment, In Soviet Russia, treatment comes to YOU!

Seriously, you seem to be advocating a polce state for thought crimes.

jewish philosopher said...

Evolution is true? Well, aside from the fact that it isn't (crack open a Bible) read my blog.

Regarding your ancestors, in this post I am only referring to Orthodox Jews converting to atheism in the present day. Fifty years ago and one hundred years ago there may have been different motives - for example, you might starve if you didn't work on Shabbos, you might be shot in Stalinist Russia for being Orthodox, etc.

What I am advocating is: We cannot stop atheists. However we can stop ourselves from enabling them and we can stop them from disrupting our lives and the lives of our families.

Samuel Skinner said...

Samuel Skinner
You use the bible as evidence against evolution? You are aware evidence in science has to come from things that are repeatable, observable, testable, empirical... probably a few other things as well. Argument from authority (the bible) is NOT evidence.

They converted entirely voluntarily and not for any reward.

Well, given how Orthodoxes lives revolve around religion, yes, atheists would be a disruption to that. Of course some disruptions would be good.

However, your "solution" is basically this:

jewish philosopher said...

You are aware evolution is not repeatable, observable, testable, empirical... probably a few other things as well.

We know what happened in the past from books like the Bible.

"However, your "solution" is basically this:

I guess any alcoholic would say that about intervention.

Aspentroll said...

I guess there would be no point in arguing with you over religion because you are totally immersed in it with no
view to the left or right.

You must show proof of heaven and hell if you want to scare people with the concept. Please tell me if you have some sort of real communication with this god of yours otherwise you will lose me and any other atheist/agnostic in your attempt to stomp on our lack of belief.

Any way, I have a very busy day ahead of me, I have to disrupt your lives and the lives of your families. This is what we atheists do.

jewish philosopher said...

Aspen, of course I have proof. Look over this blog.

AtheistsAnon said...

What types of intervention would you suggest? Maybe tell them that it is their life to live, but if they do notwant you light the fire beneath their feet while they are tied to a pole, they should reconsider? Nah, it's been done already. How about putting their family to the sword? Nah, all they care about is sex anyway. How about concluding that if they do not believe, then they must be from Amalek, and we know what that means? You know, I know a guy in Brooklyn who knows how to handle people ... wink, wink.

jewish philosopher said...

For advice about how to intervene, just click on the links in this post.

AtheistsAnon said...

We had some interventions for believers at Fundamentalists Anonymous 12 step. It was called deprogramming.

This site is a hoot. It is jut the kinds of arguments the fundamentalist make, albeit exaggerated in silliness for shock effect. ROFL as they say.

jewish philosopher said...

I think you're really right. I have to sober up and get my life back like these guys are doing.

Garnel Ironheart said...

Interesting post. I would note that the Gemara itself points out that the only reason our ancestors in the First Temple times believed in idols is because of the desire for sex. This desire was the next to go after the Anshei Knesses HaGedolah destroyed the yetzer for idol worship but then chickens stopped laying eggs so they asked for it back. But certainly this is a potent force that has led people astray in history.

Shalmo said...

The dates for the DH may be made up but multiple authorship is undeniable:

Some clues that Moses didn't write the Pentateuch

•Theologians were prompted to develop the Documentary Hypothesis as a result of observing the presence of DOUBLETS in the Pentateuch. These are pairs of stories which occur in two separate locations in the text. The doublets in the Torah generally do not agree fully; there are usually minor differences between the stories. :

oTwo creation stories in Genesis.
oTwo descriptions of the Abrahamic covenant.
oTwo stories of the naming of Isaac.
oTwo instances where Abraham deceived a king by introducing his wife Sarah as his sister.
oTwo stories of Jacob traveling to Mesopotamia
oTwo stories of a revelation at Beth-el to Jacob.
oTwo accounts of God changing Jacob's name to Israel
oTwo instances where Moses extracted water from two different rocks at two different locations called Meribah.

It is difficult to account for so many doublets -- most containing slight discrepancies -- if all five books were written over a short interval of time by Moses or by any other single individual, much less God. There is no answer for this in Judaism, and the Talmud/Gemara excuse, or God has different names = different writing styles doesn't cut it either because they don't explain the DOUBLETS.

Liberal theologians reasoned that a much more logical explanation is that the books were written by multiple authors who lived long after the events described. That would have allowed the oral tradition to be passed from generation to generation in different areas of the land so that they had a chance to deviate from each other before being written down. In a few cases, triplets have been found in the Pentateuch where the same accounts appears three times. Here:

•Genesis 7:15: In the story of the Flood, these verses have Noah collecting two of each species of animals -- one male and one female .Genesis 7:2-3 specifies 7 pairs of clean animals and birds and 1 pair of unclean animals.
•Genesis 7:11 describes water coming from the heavens and from below the ground to generate the worldwide flood. However, Genesis 7:4 describes all of the water falling as rain.
•Genesis 7:11, 7:17, 7:24 and 8:3 specify different intervals for the flood duration which have no apparent resolution. 11
•Genesis 11:31 This describes Abraham as living in the city Ur, and associates that location with the Chaldeans. Archaeological evidence indicates that the Chaldeans did not exist as a tribe at the time of Abraham; they rose to power much later, during the 1st millennium BCE.
•Genesis 14:14: This verse refers to Abram pursuing some surviving kings of Sodom and Gomorrah to the city of Dan. However, that place name did not exist until a long time after Moses' death. Other locations are also identified in the Pentateuch by names that were invented long after the death of Moses.
•Genesis 22:14: The verse states: "And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day..." There are many verses in the Torah that state that something has lasted "to this day". That appears to have been written by a writer who composed the passages long after the events described, and long after Moses' death.
•Genesis 36 contained a list of Edomite kings which included some monarchs who were in power after Moses' death. R.E. Friedman wrote: "In the eleventh century, Isaac ibn Yashush, a Jewish court physician of a ruler in Muslim Spain, pointed out that a list of Edomite kings that appears in Genesis 36 named kings who lived long after Moses was dead. Ibn Yashush suggested that the list was written by someone who lived after Moses. The response to his conclusion was that he was called "Isaac the blunderer." History has proven him to be correct, at least as viewed by most mainline and liberal theologians. 9
•Exodus 33:7 describes Moses entering the Tabernacle. Yet, the Tabernacle had not yet been built; its subsequent construction is described in Exodus 35.
•Numbers 12:3: This verse states "Now the man Moses was very humble, more than all men who were on the face of the earth." (NKJ) If Moses were that humble, it is unlikely that he would have described himself in these glowing terms.
•Numbers 25:1 which describes the rebellion at Peor referred to Moabite women; Numbers 25:6 14 refers to Midianites.
•Deuteronomy 34:5-9: These verses describe the death, burial, age at death, physical condition at death, and mourning period for Moses. It is difficult for an individual to describe events at and after his or her death. Some have suggested that this portion of the Pentateuch (and only this portion) was written later by Joshua. However, R.E. Friedman wrote:
"...in the sixteenth century, Carlstadt, a contemporary of Luther, commented that the account of Moses' death is written in the same style as texts that precede it. This makes it difficult to claim that Joshua or anyone else merely added a few lines to an otherwise Mosaic manuscript." 9
•Deuteronomy 34:10 This states "There has never been another prophet like Moses..." (NLT) This sounds like a passage written long after Moses' death. Enough time would have had to pass for many other prophets to have arisen, to passed from the scene, and to have been evaluated.

Face it the Torah is a man-made book. The evidence for it is astronomical. To deny multiple authorship at this point is delusion.