Friday, May 23, 2008

Some Things I’ve Learned From Two Years of Blogging


Atheism is a delusion based primarily on testosterone. Testosterone creates a desire for sex. People, mainly men, wish to indulge their desire for promiscuous sex, therefore they imagine that nothing exists except physical things and therefore there are no consequences to their actions other than the obvious physical ones. Disappointed women, ruined children, etc are none of their concern.

I believe that the growing popularity of Internet pornography will cause a growing popularity of atheism. I think that the current crop of anti-religious best sellers, which apparently began in 2004, is an indication of this.

Evolution is the substitute atheists have invented for God. It is the delusion that huge amounts of purposeful complexity can develop spontaneously over a very long time. Evolution satisfies the atheist’s natural curiosity about his origins by saying “evolution made us”.

Atheists imagine that they are morally superior to religious people by assuming that any crime committed by any religious person proves that all religious people are evil while imagining that any crime committed by an atheist was caused by something else, not his atheism.

Atheists are actually often very cruel, brutal, selfish and violent. The only limit on an atheist’s behavior is fear of law enforcement, which is not nearly strong enough to make people honest, kind and peaceful all the time.

In spite of all the evidence to the contrary, atheists imagine that King Josiah and Ezra the Scribe fabricated Judaism. (This concept is called the Documentary Hypothesis.)

It is obvious that non-physical things exist. [By non-physical, I don’t mean non-real. I mean something which is beyond human comprehension and which is not bound by the laws of nature.] The physical universe must have been created since if it were infinitely old it would have reached a state of complete entropy an infinitely long time ago. The universe cannot be a perpetual motion machine. The creator of everything physical must be something non-physical.

It is obvious that the universe has an intelligent designer since purposeful complexity cannot occur spontaneously. A book, for example, cannot write itself.

It is obvious that the Torah was given at Mount Sinai because large-scale conspiracies, where a very large number of people attempt to deceive others and none of the conspirators confesses, are implausible. It is implausible that the Ten Commandments are a hoax as much as it is that the Apollo moon landings were a hoax.

Orthodox Judaism has the potential to make people happier.

Orthodox Judaism has the potential to bring world peace.

51 comments:

Unmolested Altar Boy said...

As one can see from this post, even the unblinking eye of eternal surveillance and the threat of damnation cannot make Jacob Stein behave. He'll lie, plagiarize, make shit up, misquote, and make a studied effort to avoid all fact.

"People, mainly men, wish to indulge their desire for promiscuous sex, therefore they imagine that nothing exists except physical things and therefore there are no consequences to their actions other than the obvious physical ones. Disappointed"

Notice Jacob does not cite a single source other than his own self-published blog as evidence of this assertion.

Why? because evidence shows that Atheists divorce far less than Jews and other religious groups. (http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm_

"Disappointed women, ruined children, etc are none of their concern."

Jacob Stein fails to mention he ditched his wife. Why? according to him she left him.

"Evolution is the substitute atheists have invented for God. It is the delusion that huge amounts of purposeful complexity can develop spontaneously over a very long time."

Notice evolution is a delusion one supported by millions of people globally. Yet when it comes to his religion,

"It is obvious that the Torah was given at Mount Sinai because large-scale conspiracies, where a very large number of people attempt to deceive others and none of the conspirators confesses, are implausible."

So millions of atheists are capable of delusion and supporting that delusion with thousands of books and tens of thousands of journal articles, while his belief system, supported by a single account in the bible is above reproach.

He claims that atheists are "very cruel, brutal", but ignores the fact that religious wars are the "dirtier, more brutal, and fuller of cruelty and atrocity than ordinary wars." (1)

Baumeister, evil, 174

Now take note of his utter ignorance of science,

"t is obvious that non-physical things exist. The physical universe must have been created since if it were infinitely old it would have reached a state of complete entropy an infinitely long time ago. "

Nobody claims the universe is infinitely old. And many scientists expect a state of complete entropy to occur. As I learned in 6th grade, the end of universe probably will be heat death.

"It is obvious that the universe has an intelligent designer since purposeful complexity cannot occur spontaneously"

Notice this all the rest of his claims are made by citing himself. Deploying a variation of Jacob's anti-conspiracy argument, what is more likely, some blogger has outwitted the entire scientific community or he's making it up?

Cameron said...

JP: Atheism is a delusion based primarily on testosterone.

CH: All humans (indeed I believe all mammals) use testosterone to regulate a wide variety of body activities. If testosterone equaled atheist, then we would expect to see a statistical correlation between size, strength, weight, facial hair , etc. among atheists.

Of course we find nothing of the sort.

JP: Testosterone creates a desire for sex. People, mainly men, wish to indulge their desire for promiscuous sex, therefore they imagine that nothing exists except physical things and therefore there are no consequences to their actions other than the obvious physical ones. Disappointed women, ruined children, etc are none of their concern.

CH: I'm going to lay money that the above is a historical description of your past Jacob. You lost your first wife because you couldn't keep it in your pants and you blame your weakness on a deficit of faith.

Rather than an argument about atheists you are just projecting your own fallibility onto atheism and blaming it for your own sins.

Just a hunch.

JP: Evolution is the substitute atheists have invented for God.

CH: Wrong in every way possible;

Evolution is not a substitute for God. Evolution is the explanation for diversity of species, God is a fairy tale invisible sky daddy who asks his people to commit preemptive war and genocide and whose priests are encouraged to sexually mutilate young boys. The two are unrelated.

Even if we are generous and suggest that Darwin is a full-blown atheist (which he wasn't), the proof of evolution is everywhere from genetics departments to immunology labs to high school biology, and is a theory that has been ratified by the godly and ungodly alike.

Yet you offer to explain this only by calling religious scientists 'useful idiots' or 'stooges' to an imagined atheist conspiracy.

Crazy talk.

JP: It is the delusion that huge amounts of purposeful complexity can develop spontaneously over a very long time.

CH: A 'delusion' shared by every major university on the planet, and by every branch of science in virtually every country of the world. What is more you offer no reason to think it is a delusion except that;

- you can't comprehend it.
- it violates the evidence of the bible and Torah (and Koran, and book of Mormon, and the creation myths of every people and culture on the planet)


JP: Atheists imagine that they are morally superior to religious people by assuming that any crime committed by any religious person proves that all religious people are evil while imagining that any crime committed by an atheist was caused by something else, not his atheism.

CH: Again, you couldn't be more wrong. When a religious person commits a crime (say a wife murdering her adulterous husband) the atheist can correctly deduce that she is guilty of murder not because she is an Orthodox Jew but because the evidence shows she killed her husband.

On the other hand we have your strange moral world where a child inflicted with cancer must have deserved it because of some imaginary crimes in an imaginary other life. So when the evidence is presented that the JO wife has murdered her husband do you still say that God must have willed it? Or that the husband deserved it for crimes in an another life?

With such a theology concepts like 'justice' and 'fairness' and 'deserved' and 'earned' have no meaning at all.

JP: Atheists are actually often very cruel, brutal, selfish and violent.

CH: And sometimes we are content to simply mock your derangements.

JP: The only limit on an atheist’s behavior is fear of law enforcement, which is not nearly strong enough to make people honest, kind and peaceful all the time.

CH: Laws are the product of our culture, which is shaped by our appetites and our natures. Because we share a common nature we share similar underlying moralities.

JP: In spite of all the evidence to the contrary, atheists imagine that King Josiah and Ezra the Scribe fabricated Judaism. (This concept is called the Documentary Hypothesis.)

CH: I can honestly say I have never imagined anything about King Josiah and Ezra the Scribe.

JP: It is obvious that non-physical things exist.

CH: There is no difference in evidence between God, Russell's teapot, Sagan's dragon and Leprechauns.

JP: The physical universe must have been created since if it were infinitely old it would have reached a state of complete entropy an infinitely long time ago. The creator must be something non-physical. The universe cannot be a perpetual motion machine.

CH: The universe had a beginning some 13.7 billion years ago, and physicists are still trying to calculate whether it will expand forever (the current theory) or collapse in a big crunch (still a possibility). Either way, the universe will have a finite lifespan. God it would seem is not eternal afterall.

JP: It is obvious that the universe has an intelligent designer since purposeful complexity cannot occur spontaneously. A book, for example, cannot write itself.

CH: Funny, but it isn't 'obvious' to anyone except a few crazy religious people upset that science made them look foolish for that whole garden and talking snake story. No serious scientist or expert anywhere believes this story to be true.

JP: It is obvious that the Torah was given at Mount Sinai because large-scale conspiracies, where a very large number of people attempt to deceive others and none of the conspirators confesses, are implausible. It is implausible that the Ten Commandments are a hoax as much as it is that the Apollo moon landings were a hoax.

CH: Its not a conspiracy. It's a myth a legend or a story. The fact that people still believe it even when it is demonstrably wrong is a testament to human folly.

JP: Orthodox Judaism has the potential to make people happier.

CH: So does a lobotomy.

JP: Orthodox Judaism has the potential to bring world peace.

CH: Orthodox Jews can't even bring peace to their own country and you want to suggest they can bring it to the world?

I just laughed so hard I spit coffee on my monitor!

jewish philosopher said...

Cameron and Unmolested, ever single objection you mention is already addressed at length in other articles which I linked to. Beyond that your posts are just pointless insults which are so over the top they make you both sound very nervous.

You both attack my personal integrity and morality while at the same time hiding behind the anonymity of the Internet and revealing no identifying information about yourselves. That is not only cruel and rude, but very cowardly. Of course, atheists have no morality, so there is no reason this should bother you.

Regarding your other comments, “Its not a conspiracy. It's a myth a legend or a story. The fact that people still believe it even when it is demonstrably wrong is a testament to human folly.” This precisely describes evolution and atheism.

“Orthodox Jews can't even bring peace to their own country” Where is this country? Israel, which was created against the protests of nearly all Orthodox rabbis and whose parliament includes 18 Orthodox Jews out of 120 members? The Israeli parliament also includes 12 Arabs . You may as well call Israel an Arab state. Israel was in fact created by and is still largely supported and inhabited by assimilated Jews who were attempting to imitate 19th century European nationalists. At least think a few seconds before you press the “publish” button.

jewish philosopher said...

"JP: Orthodox Judaism has the potential to make people happier.

CH: So does a lobotomy."

Let me ask you to try one and get back to me.

badrabbi said...

Cameron;

Welcome back!
This blog is not the same without you.

Are there other places that you submit comments on?

I am starting to get bored here!

jewish philosopher said...

But could someone make some intelligent criticism? That would relieve the boredom.

jewish philosopher said...

"You lost your first wife because you couldn't keep it in your pants and you blame your weakness on a deficit of faith."

Say that to my face and you might lose a few things too. But seriously, you can call my ex if you want to. (718) 808-5661 or email Samarkis@aol.com.

"CH: A 'delusion' shared by every major university on the planet,"

Sure. Just like Christianity was 300 years ago and racism 100 years ago and socialism 50 years ago. The major universities have a great track record of being wrong.

"If testosterone equaled atheist, then we would expect to see a statistical correlation between size, strength, weight, facial hair , etc. among atheists."

If there is no correlation, then why do I find so many couples where the husband has become an atheist and the wife remains devoutly religious, but never the opposite? Does anyone have an exception to this rule?

"CH: I can honestly say I have never imagined anything about King Josiah and Ezra the Scribe."

You are too busy imagining that you are intelligent.

"CH: The universe had a beginning some 13.7 billion years ago,"

And how did everything physical begin, unless something not physical created it?

"CH: Funny, but it isn't 'obvious' to anyone except a few crazy religious people"

Anyone who disagrees with Cameron is crazy and those few people probably include the majority of humans at this moment. Brilliant.

"On the other hand we have your strange moral world where a child inflicted with cancer must have deserved it because of some imaginary crimes in an imaginary other life. So when the evidence is presented that the JO wife has murdered her husband do you still say that God must have willed it? Or that the husband deserved it for crimes in an another life?

With such a theology concepts like 'justice' and 'fairness' and 'deserved' and 'earned' have no meaning at all."

I don't think this even makes sense, however I think I hear a pathetic weakling complaining that God is making demands of him. Typical atheist.

badrabbi said...

Regarding testosterone causing atheism, let's look at that for one moment. JP's assertions are one of the following:

1. Testosterone causes atheism
2. Testosterone levels are correlated with atheism

The first hypothesis is easy to debunk. All we have to do is t point to a female atheist and the hypothesis fails. Even JP would have to admit (as he had a blog on Ayn Rand) that female atheists exist.

The second hypothesis, namely of correlation between atheism and testosterone, the following must be correct if the hypothesis were true:
- In age matched subjects, the level of testosterone must be higher in atheists compared to god fearing people.

- People who take supplemental testosterone should have a sudden change in thinking such that they would deny god's existence.

- People with testicular tumors in whom the testicles are removed should instantly convert to orthodox Judaism

- People with weird diseases such as hirsutism or polycystic kidney disease, in which testosterone levels are abnormally high should be atheists.

Of course none of this is true. Therefore the hypothesis is wrong.

Finally, just to apeal to the religious Jew, it is important to note that King David and Solomon, both of whom revered by the orthodox Jewish community, had notorious libidos. They each had hundreds of wives or concubines, and had committed crimes in order to sleep with pretty women. Thus it would be reasonable to conclude that these kings, which by all accounts were devout Jews, were flush with testosterone. Yet, despite their sexual immorality, apparently they were not atheists.

But of what use is this? We can treat JP's hypotheses seriously, dealing with them, debunking them. Yet, very soon, in a future blog, he will repeat the same ideas, as if no one had thoroughly dealt with them.

badrabbi said...

Cameron: With such a theology concepts like 'justice' and 'fairness' and 'deserved' and 'earned' have no meaning at all."

JP: I don't think this even makes sense, however I think I hear a pathetic weakling complaining that God is making demands of him. Typical atheist.

JP, we are not complaining that God is making demands. What we are saying is as follows:

The Torah in several places says that if we commit this or that, then we will be punished. Further, if we do this or that Mitzvah, we will be rewarded. For example, The Torah states that if we shooed a bird before we took its eggs, then we will be given a long life. This is reward at its clearest. If you do X, then Y will happen to you. This is what we think of as justice at its simplest. In another place, the Torah states that if we oppress the widows and the orphans, then God himself will come down, brandishing a sword, and kill the perpetrator (this is in the Torah)! Again, this is justice. You do X and you will be punished.

Forget the propriety of the acts and their rewards and punishments for the moment. The concept, at least, is that reward or punishments follow the act. Fair enough!

Now comes JP and Orthodox Judaism, which turn this concept on its head. They say the reward might or might not come at all. That When one commits a crime, sometimes god punishes swiftly, sometimes slowly. Sometimes He punishes in this world, sometimes in the next world. Sometimes He punishes the criminal, sometimes He punishes the criminal's children. Sometimes the punishment correlates with the act, sometimes not! Sometimes a reward is given to the act, sometimes it is given to reincarnates soul of the person!

In short, there is no correlation between the act and its reward and punishment. There is no correlation between the act and the severity of its consequences.

Fundamentally, the above does not jive with any sane person's notion of justice. If someone were to kill my son, punishing the killer's reincarnated soul is not justice to me. If someone forgot to change his mezuzah, punishing him by having his son get cancer 4 years later is not justice. (Several months ago, I listened to a degenerate orthodox Jewish sofer, who made this pathetic claim - that if we do not change our mezuzah's regularly that our children will get cancer!)

How could a good god punish an innocent child for the guilts of His parents? Either God would not do that, or He is not a good god. If God exists, and He punishes children for the transgressions of His parents, then I do not believe in His justice, and would say that it would be our duty to call a jihad on Him!

badrabbi said...

"But seriously, you can call my ex if you want to. (718) 808-5661 or email Samarkis@aol.com."

This is the equivalent of writing a woman's number on the bathroom wall. This is done by immoral degenerates.

Shame on you!

DrJ said...

Bad, Cameron, alterboy and the rest of the skeptics out there:

All of you made good points.

Since JP resorts to an attack on atheists rather than atheism, I, too shall attack ad homonim.

Human psychology does not easily allow a person to accept evidence that contradicts everything that he holds near and dear. Cognitive dissonance theory predicts that under these curcumstances the person will resort to denial, rationalization and sometimes even aggression, rather than dump their deeply held beliefs. It is an involuntary and unconscious process. We simply don't like to see ourselves are completely wrong! Do you think that if JP suddenly found "killer" evidence of the falsehood of Judaism, he would willingly toss his black hat, shave his beard, start driving on Shabbat and having sex with his menstruating wife? The mind does not like this sort of thing.

How do we know that we skeptics aren't doing the same thing? I know that many skeptics who comment on this blog were in fact raised as believers and lived much of their lives as such. Gradually, with a mature mind, and not due to any need to philander, we began to see that OJ, just like any other system of beliefs, is based largely on a number of myths for which there is insufficient proof or evidence for the opposite. We opened our eyes to the contradictions, inconsistencies and errors in the Torah and Talmud,(or in Christianity), and are unwilling to accepts JPs rationalizations, denials or twists in logic in order to keep the faith. Some of us in fact changed lifestyle, some remained "orthoprax" for practical reasons.

On the other hand, JP threw out his former life and family at the ripe old age of 16, with all of the wisdom that characterises that stage of mental and emotional development.

So we can't possible hope to influence JP, but if indeed there are uncertain souls floating out there who might be duped by JP's philosophy, we are here to make that not happen.

Another point:

"“Orthodox Jews can't even bring peace to their own country” Where is this country? Israel, which was created against the protests of nearly all Orthodox rabbis..."

I agree that we can't blame the orthodox for lack of peace in Israel. The lack of peace here is the inevitable result of two mutually exclusive and irreconcilable national movements. While the Jews are willing to compromise, but the Pals are not prepared to reconcile themselves to us being here. It's really that simple!

On the other hand, JP's hero orthodox rabbis of yesteryear who opposed Zionism, were the same Chelmites who exhorted their followers not to emigrate to "treif" America or Palestina, but stay in Europe, only to be slaughtered by the Nazis, while being rescued themselves(like the Satmar rebbe) Now that's wisdom!!

jewish philosopher said...

Badrabbi, let me ask you a question. There are scientists who claim that smoking causes lung cancer. What if I could find one person who smokes but does not have lung cancer, or one person with lung cancer who does not smoke - does that refute those scientists? Not really. They are merely saying that smoking greatly increases the risk of lung cancer, which may have other causes as well. Likewise, I am saying testosterone is a risk factor for the mental illness called atheism. My evidence is that apparently people with higher testosterone levels are more frequently atheists.

Regarding reward and punishment, I have a post a post about that. Regarding the supposed unfairness of children dying as a punishment for their parents, no one is asking you opinion. Don't sin and you won't have a problem.

DrJ, you are speculating about something about which you know nothing, namely my honesty. How honest are you I wonder, O great DrJ, who will not even reveal his name.

Regarding the advice of rabbis in pre-war Europe, this is probably one of the silliest lies told about Orthodox rabbis. There was not even the slightest possibility of a Nazi holocaust happening until at least the German reoccupation of the Rhineland in 3/7/1936. The holocaust began seriously following the Wannsee Conference 1/20/1942. During that six year interval, how easy was it for a Jew in Poland, Lithuania, Hungary or Romania to receive an entrance visa to Palestine or America? Almost impossible.

It's amazing reading these comments. In this post, I completely refute the validity of atheism and what do atheists answer with - evidence, proof, logic? No. Nasty comments about my divorce. Obvious lies about rabbis. Arguments from authority ("the universities can't be wrong", even though history shows how often they are). It's amusing and pathetic at the same time.

jewish philosopher said...

And Bad, I am definitely going start writing your number in some public men's rooms. For a good time, call 800-BADRABBI.

If anyone really wants to check out my divorce, it was finalized in 1992 in the Rockland County Court House in New City, New York. The records are of course public.

jewish philosopher said...

"religious wars are the "dirtier, more brutal, and fuller of cruelty and atrocity than ordinary wars."

Which religious war was dirtier, more cruel and brutal than World War II?

jewish philosopher said...

DrJ, about the age of my conversion, based on biographies I have read (for example, Stalin, Einstein, etc) I have an impression that most atheists also reach their conclusions in their teens. In fact, I would guess that about 95% of the time, whatever people believe at age 20 they will still believe in old age.

badrabbi said...

"What if I could find one person who smokes but does not have lung cancer, or one person with lung cancer who does not smoke - does that refute those scientists?"

JP, as usual, you were unable to fully grok my comments. Above, I assumed that your hypothesis boiled to one of 2 possibilities:

1. Testosterone causes atheism
2. Testosterone levels are correlated with atheism

Read the previous post more carefully. I debunked both of these, JP.

jewish philosopher said...

Bad, what I wrote was, read it carefully, "Atheism is a delusion based primarily on testosterone."

This is equivalent to stating "Lung cancer is an illness caused primarily by smoking."

By the way, women do also possess testosterone, however at lower levels than males. I believe that accounts for what seems to be a stiking gender imbalance in the atheistic community.

Unmolested Altar Boy said...

It's amazing reading Jacob's comments. In this post and others, we have collectively refuted the validity of his beliefs and what do he answer with - evidence, proof, logic? No? Nasty comments about people's sex lives. Obvious lies about atheists. Arguments from authority ("torah can be wrong even though it has been proven wrong numerous times) and recycled arguments.

Seriously, am I the only one to notice he is still citing "Abortion Man" as proof of atheist evil. Even after it has been established that is Christian humor?

I think Cameron is on to something. I think you lack all manner of internal discipline thus need outsiders, be it God or Cameron and myself, to monitor your behavior and administer discipline when appropriate

"Regarding the supposed unfairness of children dying as a punishment for their parents, no one is asking you opinion. Don't sin and you won't have a problem."

So Jacob, why did God punish you?

"religious wars are the 'dirtier, more brutal, and fuller of cruelty and atrocity than ordinary wars.'"

The 30 Years War, the Crusades, and other conflicts killed far more people per capita than WWII.

Also the worse atrocities in WWII (Yugoslavia, Romania, the Holocaust in general) were religiously motivated or inspired.

"I have an impression that most atheists also reach their conclusions in their teens."

I have the impression, like most of the other you spew, you made this up.

Research says- "http://www.thedurhamnews.com/108/story/32566.html" I am right.

jewish philosopher said...

I believe that nearly all, if not all, atheists are pro-choice. Therefore I think that the "Abortion Man" video clip on youtube does accurately portray atheistic values, although the producer may or may not be an atheist.

"So Jacob, why did God punish you?"

Because of my sins.

"The 30 Years War, the Crusades, and other conflicts killed far more people per capita than WWII."

You mean the percentage of civilians and soldiers killed in the Crusades was higher than those killed on the WWII Russian front? If so why don't we arm our troops in Iraq with battle axes, rather than those silly tanks and missles which do so little damage?

I don't understand how your newspaper article contradicts me. I am saying that most people find their life long beliefs in their teens as I did and the article says many teens believe in God.

Incidentally, I have never claimed that all atheists are evil moral degenerates. I have found one exception, however there is a twist to his story.

Unmolested Altar Boy said...

"Because of my sins."

Well you must be a twisted fuck for God to smite you by striking down your children.

Interesting, Chanda and most atheists are far more able not to ditch their wives than you. Of course, you're a pretty lead standard by which to measure one's own morality.

As bad rabbi once asked, "Can any one name a prominent rabbi, for whom an extensive biography is available, who is moral by JP standards?"

jewish philosopher said...

Unmolested, I am really touched by your concern about all the intimate details of my private life, including past relationships, the health of my children, my own spiritual strengths and weaknesses, however that really is not what this blog is about. It’s off topic. If I do ever decide to write a blog documenting all the minute details of my personal life, which I’m sure you’ll find endlessly fascinating, believe me, you will be the first person to know. I’ll email you immediately.

In the mean time, frankly you’re being a little weird and creepy. But then again, what should I expect....

badrabbi said...

"This is equivalent to stating "Lung cancer is an illness caused primarily by smoking.""

Correct, JP, smoking is strongly CORRELATED with smoking. So your analogy is correct. Now go and re read the previous post, as I debunked both a claim of causation as well as correlation.

badrabbi said...

I meant lung cancer is strongly correlated with smoking....

Regarding religious versus non-religious wars, please note that whereas the motivation of religious wars is, um religion, the motivation for a non-religious war is not atheism! Wars are fought for political reasons, for access to resources, for labor and for land etc. When a war is not religiously motivated, it is not necessarily an 'atheistic' war. To my knowledge, there has never been a war waged for atheism. World war II, for example, was not fought over whether there is or isn't a god. Similarly, that Stalin and Pol pot were atheists does not mean that the violence they wreaked is atheistic in nature.

Thus, to say that WWII was more deadly than, say, the Crusades is meaningless in the theism/atheism debate. It is frankly childish to claim that so and so war had more casualties therefore god does or does not exist!

jewish philosopher said...

Bad I read your comments a few times, however I still don't understand your point.

I wrote "Atheism is a delusion based primarily on testosterone."

You wrote "The following must be correct if that were true: People with testicular tumors in whom the testicles are removed should instantly convert to orthodox Judaism."

Frankly, it sounds like you are out of your mind.

Also, Unmolested is trying to convince me that the Crusades were far more brutal, dirty and deadly than World War II. I am highly skeptical. I doubt that spears are more deadly than 500 pound bombs, but I'm not a military historian.

Unmolested Altar Boy said...

"I'm not a military historian."

Obviously.

"I am highly skeptical. I doubt that spears are more deadly than 500 pound bombs".

You'd be surprised how few people a bomb can kill. Also, it is a matter of the application of violence and the populations involved. Notice I said per capita.

Anyway, you'd be surprised how much better the world has gotten with the rise of secularization if you studied less fiction, stopped making shit up, and read some history. :)

jewish philosopher said...

So unmolested, you'd rather have a guy come after you with T-34 than with a
battle axe
. I always thought you were stoned, but now I'm sure of it.

You'd be surprised how much better the world has gotten since the rise of Wicca, but so what?

jewish philosopher said...

I think the truth is probably the opposite – greater affluence has lead to less religion. Who needs to pray when you’ve got a good job, a good pension and you’re almost guaranteed to live pain free until age 75?

DrJ said...

I'm getting mixed up with all the different threads in this discussion.

BTW, JP, my name is noted fully on my blog, just click the link, I'm not hiding anything.

I agree with your assertion that affluence has promoted secularization of the world. But its not just affluence, otherwise wealthy kings of the past would be atheists,too. I think its affluence+science+industrial revolution+better understanding of history-- all of these have brought about most people to conclude that all organized religions are essentially socially acceptable hoaxes, all based on certain universal human moral ideas. Atheism is a different matter, in that if you redefine God you can make Him consistent with science.

jewish philosopher said...

The truth is kings were often very decadent - look at Henry VIII. But even the few wealthy people in previous times would not have dissented from what everyone else believed. And the wealthy also suffered from illness and sudden death probably as much as everyone else did.

jewish philosopher said...

DrJ is this you http://spititout.org/

Unmolested Altar Boy said...

Jacob, here is some advice, if you do not know what you are talking about, don't go spouting off like an export.

"So unmolested, you'd rather have a guy come after you with T-34 than with a
battle axe. I always thought you were stoned, but now I'm sure of it."

Actually it is easier for a sole infantryman to evade a sole tank than defeat someone in hand to hand combat.

Even if this was not true, well it wouldn't disprove the fact that fewer people die per-capita in today's conflicts than the wars of old.

Arguments from personal disbelief and misleading vividness make the baby Jesus cry.

jewish philosopher said...

Now I am really insulted. I have never spouted off like an export.

DrJ said...

"DrJ is this you http://spititout.org/"

JP,

No that is not me. I share my name with two other famous people (not relatives); the one you mentioned, and a very wealthy businessman from Boston (unfortunately I share only his name, not his wealth). We were actually in Boston at the same time in university and our airline reservations used to get mixed up.

I don't have a web site, other than my blog.

jewish philosopher said...

DrJ, whoever you are exactly, I do commend you for having the courage to put your name and city on your blog.

jewish philosopher said...

Frankly, I am really disappointed by the weakness, so far, of the comments attached to this post. Maybe everyone has just gotten tired of arguing with me, however in that case I would expect no comments at all. Instead, here is a summary of what I am seeing:

Ad hominem arguments. It is suggested that since I am an Orthodox Jew, I am biased. It is also suggested that my first wife left me because I committed adultery (news to everyone including the judge at our divorce). So apparently, I am either too religious or not religious enough to be credible.

Appeals to authority. It is suggested that since most scientists and professors believe that evolution is true therefore it must be true even if it doesn’t make sense.

Non sequiturs. It is suggested that if testosterone increases the likelihood of atheism, then all eunuchs should be Orthodox Jews.

In addition, there is a liberal sprinkling of fallacious sarcasm and ridicule (“God is a fairy tale invisible sky daddy who asks his people to commit preemptive war and genocide”, “orthodox rabbis of yesteryear who opposed Zionism, were the same Chelmites who exhorted their followers not to emigrate to "treif" America or Palestina, but stay in Europe, only to be slaughtered by the Nazis, while being rescued themselves”).

Finally, there is the bizarre admission that the universe, meaning all physical things, was created, but nevertheless insisting that nothing created it. So apparently everything was created by nothing, however this is not a delusion, but rather it is a scientific fact.

How about just demonstrating logically based on the evidence that I am wrong?

This is really pretty sad. I think the Internet skeptics may just as well admit that I’m right and throw in the towel.

avrum68 said...

This is the equivalent of writing a woman's number on the bathroom wall. This is done by immoral degenerates.

Shame on you!


Jacob... this was not her real information. Please tell me you didn't actually print your ex-wifes info on your blog. That it was a joke and you used fictional data to play with your critics.

Waiting for a response.

jewish philosopher said...

The phone number is on her website. http://ragzntagz.com/index.html

What's the big deal? She's a 46 year old lady with a husband and three kids. I think you could actually call her about the divorce if you don't believe me, or go to the Rockland County New York court for records.

avrum68 said...

Jacob... I've defended you for the last time.

I'd suggest professional help, but you don't think there's a problem. And in my line of work, that's the biggest problem of all.

Unmolested Altar Boy said...

avrum,

His behavior is the result of people like you defending his idiocy.

Jacob, you neglect to mention the fact that we've already debunked all these arguments every time you've posted them. At some point, we all got tired of you trotting out "Abortion Man" as proof of atheist evil. Even after it has been established that is Christian humor and decided to expose you as the plagiarizing,lying, bullshit artist who ditched his wife like Richard Dawkins.

jewish philosopher said...

Abortion Man accurately reflects atheistic morality because most atheists are pro-choice. The beliefs of its producers are irrelevant.

The publicly available court documents for my divorce in New City, NY in 1992 state that I am suing my wife for divorce on grounds of her abandoning me. She does not contest that and the divorce was granted.

I can’t seem to recall where you have already debunked all these arguments. Perhaps you can refresh my memory.

Or could it be that someone else here is the lying, bullshit artist?

DrJ said...

JP, whatever weaknesses you point out in the arguments of skeptics/atheists, it is those very weaknesses that are 100 times worse in your "orthodox" arguments. A sampling:

ad hominem:*Atheisism is incorrect because many athiests are immoral. *Non-orthodox have a higher assimilation rates, therefore non-orthodoxy is incorrect. (this reminds me of R Dessler's assetion that "truth" is defined as what serves your moral purpose, not what actually is true)

authority: Orthodox Judaism must be true because that's what orthodox Jewish authorities and tradition say (but nobody else).

Non-sequiturs:

*since we don't know how the universe came about, it must be the God of Israel that did it.
*Just because we can't prove that non-material things exist it doesn't mean they don't exist, in fact they do because they must, in order for the Torah to make sense. (circular reasoning)
*If you challenge whether or not the Sinai revelation happened, you can with equal credibility challenge whether man landed on the moon, the sun rose this morning or the holocaust happened. *Claiming that many people saw an event verifies the truth of the claim, even without being able to actually verify that in fact many people saw the event.
*all other religions were invented as elaborate hoaxes but nonetheless believed to this day, but only Judaism's claims are completely true because Judaism says so and because people believe it.
*since justice is obviously not served in this world, there is a just god who metes out retribution in another unproven, unseen, unwitnessed afterlife-- rather than there being no just god.

Glass houses....

jewish philosopher said...

Now we are switching to straw man arguments. I guess this is progress.

“Atheisism is incorrect because many athiests are immoral.” I never said that. I am just pointing out a fact that atheists are immoral.

“Non-orthodox have a higher assimilation rates, therefore non-orthodoxy is incorrect.” Again, I never said that. I am just pointing out that non-orthodox Jewish groups have historically and will in the future become extinct.

“Orthodox Judaism must be true because that's what orthodox Jewish authorities and tradition say” Not exactly. Judaism must be true because the entire Jewish people could not unanimously conspire together to falsify it. And incidentally, Muslims and Christians also agree that the Sinai revelation happened.

“since we don't know how the universe came about, it must be the God of Israel that did it.” Never said that. But since the universe could not create itself something non-physical must have created it.

“Just because we can't prove that non-material things exist it doesn't mean they don't exist, in fact they do because they must, in order for the Torah to make sense.” I never wrote that. Non-material things must exist for the Torah to make sense?? I don’t think that comment makes sense.

“If you challenge whether or not the Sinai revelation happened, you can with equal credibility challenge whether man landed on the moon, the sun rose this morning or the holocaust happened.” Correct, but you added the part about the sun.

“Claiming that many people saw an event verifies the truth of the claim, even without being able to actually verify that in fact many people saw the event.” I never said that. But many people claiming unanimously that they saw something does verify that event. It’s an old legal concept called “witnesses”.

“*all other religions were invented as elaborate hoaxes but nonetheless believed to this day, but only Judaism's claims are completely true because Judaism says so and because people believe it.” Never said that and anyway it ‘s not true. Probably about 1 human in 3000 believes in Orthodox Judaism; that’s a little short of all people.

“*since justice is obviously not served in this world, there is a just god who metes out retribution in another unproven, unseen, unwitnessed afterlife-- rather than there being no just god.” So? Therefore?

DrJ said...

I'm wasn't trying to quote you verbatim, but these claims are the main thrust of your blog.

Muslims think the Torah is fake. Most Christians in the world now are descendents of coerced converts to Christianity (by Rome) after it broke off of Judaism. So you can't say that all of these people believe what you do. They don't believe in an Oral law. They don't believe in the eternal truth and applicability of the Law. Let's not forget about the billions of Buddhists and Hindus who never heard of the revelation. They didn't check in on CNN. So don't use them as your witnesses.

"but only Judaism's claims are completely true because Judaism says so and because people believe it.” I didn't say all people. I mean Orthodox Jews.

"many people claiming unanimously that they saw something does verify that event. It’s an old legal concept called “witnesses”."

Unfortunately thats not Judaism. People claiming that they heard that witnesses saw it 3000 years ago because their tradition says so is called "hearsay". Not too reliable.

"I never wrote that. Non-material things must exist for the Torah to make sense?? I don’t think that comment makes sense".

The afterlife. The soul. Angels. Talking donkeys. prophecies and voices from heaven. These are all non-physical phenomena described by Judaism and are integral in the God-Man relationship described in the Torah. Without them the stories don't make any sense.

"“*since justice is obviously not served in this world, there is a just god who metes out retribution in another unproven, unseen, unwitnessed afterlife-- rather than there being no just god.” So? Therefore?"

Therefore rather than inventing an imaginary, unseen, unprovable and unwitnessed realm called "afterlife" you should conclude that there is no just god.

“Atheisism is incorrect because many athiests are immoral.” I never said that. I am just pointing out a fact that atheists are immoral."

Yes you did. You said that atheists don't believe in God only because they want to have sex and be immoral, not because there is actually logic to their argument. That is ad hominem.

“since we don't know how the universe came about, it must be the God of Israel that did it.” Never said that. But since the universe could not create itself something non-physical must have created it.

There are many possibilities. Maybe the universe was always there. Maybe a non-physical octupus god made it. Maybe Big Bang. Maybe another physical thing. Maybe there was a Mom and Dad parent universe that made our universe. Who knows? I accept that I don't know and maybe never will. You fill in with a "non-physical" being, which must be a god, which is the God of Israel. Isn't that what you believe?

jewish philosopher said...

Muslims believe that we have falsified the Torah to some extent while still accepting that it was given to Moses at Mount Sinai. Most Christians are descended from converted pagans; that's my ancestry anyway. Nothing Jewish.

"People claiming that they heard that witnesses saw it 3000 years ago because their tradition says so is called "hearsay"."

It's also called "history".

"rather than inventing an imaginary, unseen, unprovable and unwitnessed realm called "afterlife" you should conclude that there is no just god."

So who made us?

"You said that atheists don't believe in God only because they want to have sex and be immoral" I am explaining why atheists believe something false. But that is not the proof it's false. Is there some reading comprehension problem here?

"There are many possibilities." Who made the octopus god? What set off the Big Bang? Who created the parent universe?

badrabbi said...

JP: "Non sequiturs. It is suggested that if testosterone increases the likelihood of atheism, then all eunuchs should be Orthodox Jews."

JP, you characterize my comments as "non sequiturs". Let me review my comments once more (incidentally, I am doing this not for you, since by now you have amply demonstrated your obtuse nature, but for more reasonable amongst the readers):

You made the following logical argument: Atheists are atheists because their hormone levels are high, thereby making them horny. Since they are horny, they would want to have sex. Since God prohibits sex, then these people with high testosterone level would have to deny god's existence in order to have sex without fear of punishment!

This is your argument JP. Let me start by saying that you clearly demonstrate your intelligence by making such an argument. As Cameron would say, you prove yourself an asshat by making the above comment.

Nevertheless, I decided to indulge your stupid argument. I pointed out that if testosterone levels were related to the incidence of atheists, then the following should be true:

1. More men than women should be atheists (in fact you made this very argument yourself, JP)

2. Men with testicular cancers, having thereby a higher testosterone levels should have much higher incidences of atheism.

3. Eunuchs, having zero testosterone, should be theists at much higher incidence. Since the ultimate in theism is orthodox Jews, I half jokingly suggested that eunuchs should be orthodox Jews at much higher rates. Why is this a non-sequitur?

jewish philosopher said...

What I am saying is that people who have higher levels of testosterone seem to have a greater likelihood of being atheists and I still stand by that. I also believe that affluence is a risk factor, since the more secure and comfortable a person is in life the less need he feels for God. Young men living in affluent countries are probably the most likely to be atheists and elderly women living in poor countries are probably the least likely to be.

Joseph said...

We have a counterexample to the theory that if a large number of people know a tradition, then changes to that tradition could not occur: the legend of Christopher Columbus.

The tradition that Christopher Columbus discovered the world is round is false (I think it was invented by 19th-century atheists in order to discredit Medieval civilization) but there weren't that many protests against the invention of the tradition.

As for evolution, all Darwin's theory explaining the fact of evolution means is that God used genetic algorithms to create humanity.

badrabbi said...

Joseph: "As for evolution, all Darwin's theory explaining the fact of evolution means is that God used genetic algorithms to create humanity."

OK, but first admit the legitimacy of Evolutionary theory. Then, we'll talk.

JP: "What I am saying is that people who have higher levels of testosterone seem to have a greater likelihood of being atheists and I still stand by that."

Asshatery at its finest. Cameron would be proud of you JP.

As for your comment regarding a correlation between affluence and atheistic beliefs, you may well be correct. It may well be that the affluent are generally more educated than the poor, thus influencing their beliefs. But again, it would be interesting to first firm up the correlations before speculating as to their cause.

jewish philosopher said...

Joseph, I am not claiming that widely accepted stories are never mistaken. Sometimes they are. However what I am saying is that it would have been impossible at any time in the past to engineer a conspiracy whereby all Jews unanimously would tell their children “My parents taught me that our forefathers were slaves in Egypt and were redeemed with ten miraculous plagues, etc.” when in fact their parents had said no such thing. Therefore the only plausible explanation for the Exodus tradition is that those miracles did indeed happen.

Bad, if education makes people atheists because it helps them discover the truth, then why haven't any of those educated people posted some good arguments on this blog?

Takis Konstantopoulos said...

Orthodox Judaism has the potential to make people happier.

Orthodox Judaism has the potential to bring world peace.


So how can one become Orthodox Jew?

jewish philosopher said...

By converting.

http://www.jewfaq.org/gentiles.htm#Conversion