Thursday, February 08, 2007

One Equals the Other



There are two separate groups on yahoo.com. One is for gentiles who are in the process of converting to Orthodox Judaism. The other is for Orthodox Jews who basically wish to become gentiles. Both groups are about equally active, although I am happy to say that the first group has more than twice the membership of the second.

Perhaps this should not really surprise us.

There are certain people who, by their very natures, have a difficult time coping with a religious lifestyle. They desperately want to be gentiles. The first time they come into contact with the gentile world, they are hooked, nothing can persuade them to repent and remain faithful Jews. Tragic as it may seem, this is often good riddance of worthless trash; the Jewish people will be far better off and stronger without them, just like we are without the Ten Tribes, the Hellenizers, the Sadducees and so many others who have left before them.

On the other hand, there is the opposite as well. There are those gentiles who, the first time they hear about Judaism, come running. They are captivated with the idea of devoting ones life to the truth. Nothing can stop them. Jethro, Ruth, Onkelos and many others have joined the Jewish people and hugely strengthened it.

Perhaps one group balances out the other.

The most pathetic apostates are those who are so dishonest they will not even admit to being apostates. They wish to have everything both ways, to have their cholent and eat it too, so to speak. They wish to benefit from the kindness, support, love and generosity which they correctly perceive they will only find in the Orthodox Jewish world. (They know that if they would request to be a houseguest of one of the atheist scientists whom they worship, they probably would be arrested for stalking.) On the other hand, they do not believe in the divine origin of the Bible and Talmud, or even in God altogether. So they lie and cheat. They stand in front of the Torah scroll and publicly proclaim, “Blessed are You our God Who gave us His Torah”, while privately doing whatever they feel like doing. These evil scumbags defile the Jewish community in many ways – for example, by feeding non-kosher food to other Jews. (Any wine they pour is automatically not kosher.) And they disgrace the Jewish community by behaving in all sorts of immoral ways while dressing like Jews. Let’s hope that someday there will be a website established identifying these people, just as there are currently websites for sex offenders.

[This post is in conformance with the teachings of the universally revered and beloved Talmudic scholar Rabbi Israel Meir Kagan, who wrote in his book “Hafetz Haim” Laws of Lashon Harah 8:5 that is it praiseworthy to disgrace and insult anyone who denies the divine origin of any portion of the Hebrew Bible or Talmudic law.]

16 comments:

Shtriemel said...

האחד בא לגור וישפוט שפוט?

hightie said...

Mr. Stein,
You mention on your blog;

"I think that Dr. Imas, the school
psychologist, with whom I spent six months discussing this
question or, for that matter, any trained psychologist or
psychiatrist you choose to talk to about me will assure
you that this is not the case"

Did you know that Imas is the dean of the School Psych program at Touro?
Hope you don't mind, I send him a link to your page.

hightie said...

He was. I just verified it.
What a small world.

jewish philosopher said...

You're kidding? He was working in Clarkstown High School North in New City, NY in 1976 - 1977???

hightie said...

yep, that's him

Independent Frum Thinker said...

Interesting post.

Shtreimel - You know that's forbidden, don't you?

Baal Habos said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
yitz.. said...

@jewish_philosopher
I liked the tone and freshness of perspective here..
but I wanted to discuss it with you in an un-public forum, can you email me? me@yitz.com

if not, b'seder.

jewish philosopher said...

Dear Streimel you don't have to be a judge to recognize a rat. Sometimes even the smell is enough.

Shtreimel said...

Independent,
Forbidden by whom?

(לא תונו?)

Baal Habos said...

JP, as per your request. I'm reposting what I deleted.

"Shtreimel, well said! Though I'm not sure our host understands that.

Jacob, I have come to the conclusion that you are a vitriolic piece of Dreck.

BTW, If you really are a believer, you would be wise to check Judges 21:2-3 and see how the jews cried over the loss of just one Shevet and you are gloating over the loss of the 10 tribes. (You're probably just afraid they'll surface with a copy of and E and put an end to this charade of yours).

And I once again vehemently protest your description of skeptics as self-hating jews who hate religion.

Perhaps it's time you analyze your own motives, fears, etc, ay? "

jewish philosopher said...

Bos, just think for a moment. What attitude would you expect loyal Jews to have regarding spiritual weaklings who are pursuing the latest gentile fads?

Henry said...

One would expect an attitude of regret and hope they they will one day return to the fold. And in the meantime it does no harm to show that being in the fold is not an unattractive way, and that those already there are kind and sympathetic people with whom one would want to be associated.

Baal Habos said...

>What attitude would you expect loyal Jews to have regarding spiritual weaklings who are pursuing the latest gentile fads?

The way the question is phrased (spiritual weaklings & Latest gentile fads) exhibits contempt & dis-like. I would suggest you ask your Rabbi. The question is not just what attitude you should have, but what attitude you should express when dealing with us low-lifes.

The Bad Consumer said...

I find it appalling that you consider someone who has analyzed the same data as you and has come to a different conclusion to be a "weakling" and a "low-life". There is unfortunately many valid reasons to doubt both Jews and Judaism. Perhaps it has nothing to do with "wanting to be like Gentiles" and more to do with a simple recognition that Judaism, as a lifestyle and a philosophy, doesn't ring true.

Regarding "the most pathetic apostates" that you refer to, perhaps these closet atheists are simply trying to protect their religious family and friends from the painful fact that they've moved on. Or maybe they're just afraid of confrontation. If your attitude is any indication, it wouldn't be a pleasant conversation, and it would probably end the relationship.

Unfortunately posts such as these will continue to push those who are mere doubters over to "the other side".

jewish philosopher said...

The fact is that Orthodox Judaism takes a very dim view of apostates. An apostate is to be hated, shunned, cursed and in theory put to death by sword (although I am not aware of any actual executions).

However this is referring specifically to someone who was Orthodox and left. Someone who is non-observant because of ignorance or secular childhood training is not included.

The idea behind this post is inform potential apostates of the seriousness of this step.