Monday, November 13, 2006

Anti-Gay Pride



[float at San Francisco Gay Pride Parade 2005]

I proudly support the death penalty for men engaging in anal sexual intercourse with other men.

The reason for my opinion is simply because this is what the Bible teaches and as a Jew I believe in the Bible.

Leviticus 20:13 states "If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

Even if God would command me to slaughter my own precious son, I would be obligated to do so, as indeed Abraham was willing to slaughter Isaac at God’s command (Genesis 22). If God commands that, after a trial and due process of law, male homosexuals must be put to death, I am ready to obey.

The fact is, however, that many homosexuals are not necessarily so precious.

First of all, male homosexuality represents a huge public health problem.

Because the rectum is designed to hold feces and not to receive a penis, the walls of the rectum are thinner, dryer and more rigid than the walls of the vagina. This makes anal intercourse an ideal way to transmit disease and infection. Click here for additional information.

In addition to this, male homosexuals are usually promiscuous.

It doesn’t take a lot of medical knowledge to realize that a community of millions of men who are randomly having anal sex with each other is the ideal breeding ground for sexual diseases and for the development of new, more dangerous, ones. The AIDS epidemic may be a divine punishment for homosexuality, but only in the sense that breaking ones neck is a punishment for jumping out a window. It’s worthwhile noting that the United States, which has completely legalized homosexuality, has an HIV rate 60 times higher than Saudi Arabia, which has a death penalty for homosexuality. Encouraging condom usage has not really solved the problem.

The American Red Cross will not accept a blood donation from practicing male homosexuals.

Unfortunately, homosexuals do not keep these diseases to themselves, since many have sex with woman as well and then these infections spread to the larger community.

Just as an aside, it would appear that about 90% of AIDS cases are caused either by anal sexual intercourse or unsanitary hypodermic needles. The former is the primary method of transmission in the United States while the later may be the primary method in Africa. It would seem very generally that in developed countries, AIDS is a gay/heroin problem and in developing countries it is an unsanitary medical clinic problem. It follows that societies possessing modern medical facilities, no heroin users and no homosexuals should have virtually no AIDS and that does seem to be the case. It is believed that the disease originated about 1940 when an African hunter ate a chimpanzee infected with a similar virus. Following that, a few isolated cases appeared in a few places. However apparently the large and, since the Stonewall Riots, increasingly open and liberated American gay community nutured the first large scale outbreak of AIDS, which then spread back to Africa. The Gay Liberation Front was established in New York City in July, 1969. It generally takes 10 years for HIV infection to develop into AIDS. The first cases of AIDS were reported in New York City in March, 1981. By 1990, Africa had more AIDS victims than the US. Theoretically, it is of course quite possible that future catastrophic pandemics might develop along a similar pathway, God forbid, using the gay community as an incubator.

In addition, homosexuals represent a public safety problem.

A far greater percentage of homosexuals are pedophiles than are heterosexuals; a study shows 1/3 of pedophile victims are males while only about 5% of the population is homosexual. For more details click here. Obviously, the high rate of STD infections among homosexual men makes this even more disturbing.

From a purely scientific point of view, a fixation with male on male anal sexual intercourse should be regarded as a sexual disorder having serious negative health consequences both for the practitioner as well as for others. It is possibly comparable to heroin usage.

To the best of my knowledge [and if I’m wrong, please correct me] the claim that gay men are, on the average, just as healthy and as law abiding as any other men is simply an unsubstantiated claim made by gay men. It is not based on any substantial, respected, independent research.

The question arises however – how can we ban homosexuality when some men may be born with a homosexual orientation and can only find sexual satisfaction in anal sex with another man? We could ask a similar question: How can we ban pedophilia when some men may be born with a pedophilic orientation and can only find sexual satisfaction in sex with a child? The answer is that if therapy will not help them, we insist that pedophiles lead lives of celibacy and sexual frustration. The same should apply to homosexuals.

In conclusion, the ban on anal intercourse between men is God’s will and therefore in my opinion needs no further explanation. However, in fact science has now demonstrated that this is far from being an arbitrary prohibition which will victimize millions of innocent people; rather it is a very wise and humanitarian measure which would on the balance save mankind from a great deal of misery.

In spite of all our civil liberties, Western governments have no problem banning many substances because they may be abused and cause harm. I see no reason why the same should not apply to homosexuals. Can we imagine a Drug Addicts Pride Parade?

113 comments:

Adam Shajnfeld said...

"This blog is for the questioning Jew - someone religious who is considering leaving Judaism or someone secular who is considering becoming religious. Before you decide, please read this blog first!"

However proud you are to support the death penalty for homosexuals, maybe this isn't the forum.

jewish philosopher said...

The problem is that many people wish to portray Orthodox Jews as being narrow minded and intolerant because we oppose gay rights. In an interview published Saturday, for example, Elton John declared "Religion promotes the hatred and spite against gays."

I wanted to set the record straight on this.

Anonymous said...

>Even if God would command me to slaughter my own precious son, I would be obligated to do so, as indeed Abraham was willing to slaughter Isaac at God’s command (Genesis 22).


Either you are lying or you have a monstrous nature just like the concept of your god is monstrous.

jewish philosopher said...

And you, my little Anonymous, have no concept of loyalty or discipline. Ours is not to reason why, ours is but to do and die.

Anonymous said...

Though I share your view that homosexuality is wrong, I don't share your view that government has the right to kill people who practice it! You shouldn't believe that either. After all, the commandment you cite only applies to ancient Israel as a religious-governmental nexus, doesn't it? That's the historical context in which it was given, and you would need to give some justification for a more general application of the principle. God didn't tell Lot or Abraham to go kill all the Sodomites, did he? After Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed, did God say to Abraham, "I want you to follow my example and kill homosexuals from now?" No. God is longsuffering and will deal with sin in his own way and in his own time. The civil penalty for homosexuality applied only within Israel as God's covenant people organized as a state, and it would be inappropriate for humans to take it upon themselves to apply it generally. In fact, it would be murder.

I would be remiss not to point out that homosexuality is just one of the many, many manifestations of our common sinful condition. So is cancer! It's not as though people get cancer because of their sins, but people get cancer because we have together gone astray from God. Every aspect of our lives is touched by our sin. Homosexual desire, whether it is genetic or acquired, is an aberration from the way we are supposed to be (just as the desire to cheat on one's wife is, just as the genetic predisposition to develop cancer is). We all, every last one of us, need to be forgiven and reconciled to God our maker, and he holds out the offer of forgiveness to us all. Accepting that offer in faith comes with the hope of new bodies and eternal life: free from homosexual desire, free from cancer, free from the inclination to lie or cheat on our taxes, free from every aberration from the way God intends for us to be.

Adam Shajnfeld said...

The problem is that many people wish to portray Orthodox Jews as being narrow minded and intolerant because we oppose gay rights.

Your argument does not refute this point. By trumpeting how proud you are to support killing, you do the opposite.

The Torah never commands that one be proud to kill, even where it is justified. One is always to loathe taking human life. Second, the Torah prohibits homosexuality, and that's all it says on the matter. The Torah does not claim that homosexuality leads to aids, or pedophilia. If homosexuality didn't lead to aids or pedophilia, it wouldn't matter. All of your points are completely irrelevant.

The most you can claim is that the Torah forbids homosexuality, and prescribed death as the punishment. Don't make claims about being proud to kill, or about what homosexuality leads to, because these are apt to be wrong and are not justified by the Torah.

Secondly, as a political philosophy matter, there is good reason not to support death of those who behave in consensual ways that do not affect you. For instance, in the U.S., christians make up the majority of the population. If Christians believed that denying that Jesus is messiah is punishable by death, would you support it? After all, they would claim that it is biblically required. The point is that you cannot run a country where anyone can kill someone else for violating a command of that person's religion. Your argument, if applicable at all, would only be so in a soceity that was arranged according to ancient principles, and is inapplicable in countries such as the U.S.

Oh, and before you proudly support murder, you should be damn well sure that there isn't a single doubt that your beliefs are correct. 3,000 people died on September 11 from the actions of proud murderers who felt they wre vindicating religious command.

Adam Shajnfeld said...

"In spite of all our civil liberties, Western governments have no problem banning many substances because they may be abused and cause harm. I see no reason why the same should not apply to homosexuals. Can we imagine a Drug Addicts Pride Parade?"

This indicates the flaw in your argument: Can we imagine the death penalty for drug addicts?

Adam Shajnfeld said...

"Ours is not to reason why, ours is but to do and die"

Yes, just what we need more of: epople willing to kill and die without questioning. There is a country where you will find many like-minded people: Iraq.

happywithhislot said...

>Even if God would command me to slaughter my own precious son,....

you really are out of your freakin mind.

if god tells you anything, check yourself into the nearest pshyc ward. fast.

also, immediately stop being near your son, as you are a serial killer.

call rabbi elya wientraub (youre so close to him) and ask him if what you wrote about murdering your son is judiasm.

Anonymous said...

If you object to what JP is saying about slaughtering his son, you're probably missing his point (though he might have made it in less dramatic fashion). The point is, right and wrong come from God, and God doesn't command people to do what is wrong, only what is right. It can only ever be wrong, by definition, not to do what God commands. He's right (JP that is). Further, since we're made in God's image, if we think something God commands is wrong, it just shows how degenerate our sense of morality has gotten.

Remember that God prevented Abraham from sacrificing Isaac and provided a sarificial animal instead. As a Christian, I can affirm that it is never God's command that a person sacrifice a child, and it was never his true intent for Abraham to sacrifice Isaac. In that sense, happywithhislot is right that if JP were about to do that, he would be out of his mind. The near sacrifice of Isaac was a typological foreshadowing of what God would do with his own son, Jesus, with Jesus' own full agreement and cooperation. Jesus was the once-for-all sacrifice that made any further sacrifices, animal or otherwise, superfluous or even wrong. But JP's point still stands: if God commands it, it is good and right (whatever it is), and it is incumbent on people to obey. Thankfully the living God is not a murderous God but a merciful one.

I still think JP is completely off the mark about capital punishment for homosexuals. That penalty was established within ancient Israel among people who were all parties to a covenant, who all agreed to be bound to God. American homosexuals have done nothing of the kind, and therefore it would be wrong to impose a covenant penalty on people who aren't parties to it. (In fact, no one is party to that covenant today.)

jewish philosopher said...

Agkrya, male homosexuality is actually prohibited to all humans at all times since in is part of the Seven Noahide Commandments.

Therefore I would support a Constitutional Amendment imposing a death penalty on male to male anal sexual intercourse.

Anonymous said...

You shoudn't really show such indecent pictures.
Imagine a teenage lad whose is unsure of of his sexuality watching your picture,who knows what he might do with his hands...
& you'll be responsible for the murder of all the children that his spilled seed could have produced!(according to Zohar).

Or think of a young innocent married wife who happened to see the picture,the same night her husband is mekayem with her the mitsvah of 'peru u'revu',& she is turned on by that picture & thinks of him during the mitsvah,the child that might be born of such an union is called a *ben(bat) temurah* in Chazal.They ascribe to it defects,especially spiritual.
& you are causing all this.

Have you asked a bona fide rabbi whether it's halachikly O.K.to post such obscenity.

Please remove the obscene picture from your site so that no one is chas vesholem nichshol in a devar aveiro.thank you.

jewish philosopher said...

You know, you're right. I showed this post to my wife last night and she was SO TOTALLY turned on. She wants this guy's phone number.

Anonymous said...

You misunderstand me, JP. I'm not saying that homosexuality is wrong only under the terms of the covenant. It is universally wrong. I'm saying that the penalty you're suggesting is a covenantal penalty.

jewish philosopher said...

All the Noahide Commandments carry a death penalty. Talmud, tractate Sanhedrin 57a

Adam Shajnfeld said...

JP, why don't you respond to the points I made.

Anonymous said...

Yes, I see that there is some debate about that in Sanhedrin 57a. Perhaps some rabbis do prescribe a universal death penalty for homosexuals. The passages you cited from the Tanakh in your post, however, do not, and that's the only point I'm making. I am not Jewish and not trained in Halakah, so I'm not competent to speak about the Talmud. Perhaps you should have quoted the Talmud in your post rather than the Tanakh.

jewish philosopher said...

Adam, well, no I don't see making male on male anal intercourse illegal will lead to anti-Semitism. And actually, many countries do impose a death penalty on drug dealers.

Agkyra, Judaism, similar to Islam, is pretty aggressive about this. I bet a Constitutional Amendment like this would cause a little stir down in Greenwich Village!

Anonymous said...

No kidding! You might want to avoid either Chelsea or Hell's Kitchen.

jewish philosopher said...

I actually work in Hell's Kitchen, but I'd say I can handle myself pretty well on the street. I'm always armed. 6'3" and all muscle. Bashing heads is just a little extra workout for me. ;-)

Adam Shajnfeld said...

So I imagine you would not be opposed to instituting a theocracy over the U.S., as opposed to democracy. Need I remind you what happens when people get to freely kill those that their religion or other worldview deems appropriate to kill: Nazism, Islamic fundamentalist, KKK, etc.

People cannot live together if we don't prevent exactly what you want to do.

jewish philosopher said...

When the Messiah comes, which I pray for daily, there will be a theocracy over the entire world.

Adam Shajnfeld said...

Yes, and until the messiah comes, you shouldn't be advocating killing people. Any other way will just come back to haunt Jews.

jewish philosopher said...

I've never quite figured out how Jews are linked to homosexuals. Like if they outlaw homosexuality they'll outlaw Judaism too. Homosexuality was outlawed until about 40 years ago and Jews were living happily in America a few hundred years before that.

Adam Shajnfeld said...

its the principle of being able to kill people simply because your religion or veiws happen to support such killing. You may not see the link between killing homosexuals and killing jews, but history does teach otherwise. The nazis, for instance, killed both, on simlar grounds.

jewish philosopher said...

The Nazis were in general tough on crime; they shot bank robbers and pedophiles too. The number of homosexuals killed is unknown but was apparently about 5,000. There is really no comparison between the Nazi treatment of Jews and their treatment of homosexuals.

Who knows, maybe outlawing prostitutes will lead to outlawing Jews? Prostitutes were also put into the camps by the Nazi's, wearing a black triangle. Let's demonstrate for prostitute rights.

Anonymous said...

>I proudly support the death penalty for men engaging in anal sexual intercourse with other men


>I'm always armed. 6'3" and all muscle. Bashing heads is just a little extra workout for me.


In my neighborhood there are quite a few homosexhals.
Would you be willing to come & do some head bashing & maybe in the process kill off a few.
I addition to being mekayem a great mitsvah,we also pay well.
After earing the answer on your blog,we'll send you the contract.

jewish philosopher said...

Well, it depends. Where is your neighborhood? And how much money are we talking about?

Adam Shajnfeld said...

"Who knows, maybe outlawing prostitutes will lead to outlawing Jews? Prostitutes were also put into the camps by the Nazi's, wearing a black triangle. Let's demonstrate for prostitute rights. "

You are not following my arguments and this has nothing to do with my point. I am not arguing, in this post, that you cannot make certain conduct illegal, such as prostitution. I am arguing that you cannt impose the death penalty for it. Your point is irrelevant.

As I said, it is a matter of setting the precedent that a group can simply make another group's behavior, even though it doesn't hurt them significantly, worthy of the death penalty. If you set the precedent, what is to stop Christiant, or Muslims, or any group from taking the majority in a country, and declaring that praciticing Judaism, or denying that Jesus is the lord, is worthy of death?

The answer, of course, is that nothing would stop them, unless we all agree that no killing happens.

jewish philosopher said...

Male on male sexual intercourse should be recriminalized and the punishment should be capital punishment. All monotheists, and perhaps even some honest physicians amd scientists, should agree on that. What has that got to do with anti-Semitism or intolerance in general?

Adam Shajnfeld said...

Read my post carefully. It has to do with your inability to distinguish it from Muslims or Christians deciding that denying jesus or Muhammad is worthy of death.

We cannot live with one another, especially in a country we are outnumbered in, unless we all agree not to kill each other.

jewish philosopher said...

I am not talking about outlawing religions. Anal sex is not a religion. It's a filthy and dangerous habit.

Adam Shajnfeld said...

"I am not talking about outlawing religions. Anal sex is not a religion. It's a filthy and dangerous habit"

What are you talking about? I did not claim anal sex was a religion. Nor did I claim you were outlawing religion. You pull these things out of the air.

As I said, it is a matter of setting the precedent that a group can simply make another group's behavior, even though it doesn't hurt them significantly, worthy of the death penalty. If you set the precedent, what is to stop Christiant, or Muslims, or any group from taking the majority in a country, and declaring that praciticing Judaism, or denying that Jesus is the lord, is worthy of death? What stops republicans from saying democrats should be put to death, or vice versa?

Really try hard to respond to my point, not one's you imagine I am making.

jewish philosopher said...

I support a death penalty for serial killers even though that group's behavior doesn't hurt me significantly. (Have you ever heard of a serial killer who was murdering 46 year old males?)

Adam Shajnfeld said...

No, serial killers hurt those who do not consent to being hurt. You do not advocate the death penalty for boxers, who consent to engage in an activity that is risky. And, of course, though safe sex, homosexuality can be practiced as safely as heterosexual forms of sex. Thus, serial killers are also irrelevant.

jewish philosopher said...

We put drug dealers in prison for decades and some societies shoot them. They aren't really attacking me or anyone else. But they damage society.

Adam Shajnfeld said...

And I would say that it is terribly wrong to shoot drug dealers as a general matter.

The fact that some do it doesn't make it a good idea, nor does it justify it.

jewish philosopher said...

Man on man anal intercourse is probably a greater danger than narcotics. AIDS has so far killed 25 million people. In the US, the cost of long term treatment for HIV positive individuals is a huge economic burden.

Adam Shajnfeld said...

Still not explaining why it is justified to kill people.

Increased economic burden doesn't justify killing people. We don't kill people who overeat in life and cost Medicare money in medical treatment.

And, I will remind you for the 100th time, AIDS is spread by many heterosexuals, perhaps millions of them.

Anonymous said...

You two should get a room! (A chat room, that is.)

jewish philosopher said...

The interesting thing is that AIDS did exist for many years at low levels, however it only became noticable once homosexuality became more open in the late 1970's and 1980's. It would seem clear that this development made the epidemic possible. From there it has sadly spilled over to the rest of society. Further popularization of anal intercourse may lead to the development of additional epidemics.

And I am speaking here merely from a scientific point of view. From a spiritual point of view, who knows what devastation may be in store for societies which defy God's will. Look at Sodom.

Cameron said...

JP: I proudly support the death penalty for men engaging in anal sexual intercourse with other men.

CH: Wow, that is quite possibly the most ignorant ridiculous thing you've posted. I believe that you'll find both Hitler and Goerring agreed with you. As I recall marching into the gas chamber next to the Jews with their shoulder patches of the Star of David were men and women wearing a pink triangle. You are a moral cretin.

JP: The reason for my opinion is simply because this is what the Bible teaches and as a Jew I believe in the Bible.

CH: Right, so I can have slaves from the nation next to mine (that would be the US)? It's in the bible!

JP: Leviticus 20:13 states "If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

CH: Leviticus is definitely one of the more lunatic portions of your 'good book', among other things;

- death penalty for adultery
- exile for sex during a woman's period
- exile for exposing the flesh of a family member
- death penalty for practicing magic
- death penalty for sleeping with the women of Moloch

But who can forget this gem:

Leviticus 25:44-46 "Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour."

Ah yes indeedy, it's all clear now, not only do you support the nazi like gassing of homosexuals for being homosexual, but you also implicitly (it's in the bible!) endorse SLAVERY. Nice religion you got there eh? Shame it has NOTHING to do with being moral.

JP: Even if God would command me to slaughter my own precious son, I would be obligated to do so, as indeed Abraham was willing to slaughter Isaac at God’s command (Genesis 22). If God commands that, after a trial and due process of law, male homosexuals must be put to death, I am ready to obey.

CH: Good for you. Your just as bloodthirsty and bloodyminded as your good book commands - about as good a definition for psychopathy as I've ever encountered.

JP: The fact is, however, that many homosexuals are not necessarily so precious.

CH: ALL homosexuals are PEOPLE. But then with Jews being the chosen race of your angry God it doesn't much matter what the rest of us think, does it?

JP: First of all, male homosexuality represents a huge public health problem.

In addition to this, male homosexuals are usually promiscuous.

CH: Yeah gays are verminous creatures that spread disease and corrupt the young - but wait, isn't that they said about European Jews? Oy vey. Even if both your statements were absolutely true (and they aren't), neither is a good excuse to kill people.

JP: It’s worthwhile noting that the United States, which has completely legalized homosexuality, has an HIV rate more than 6 times higher than Saudi Arabia, which has a death penalty for homosexuality. Encouraging condom usage has not really solved the problem.

CH: The fact you are taking moral guidance from SAUDI ARABIA is a sure sign your faculties for rational thought have dissapeared alltogether. They are a dictatorial theocracy - curious that given it's higher moral standards you don't choose to live there yourself.

JP: From a purely scientific point of view, a fixation with male on male anal sexual intercourse should be regarded as a sexual disorder having serious negative health consequences both for the practitioner as well as for others. It is possibly comparable to heroin addiction.

CH: Wait a minute, does that leave my male to female anal intercourse as acceptable? Some sodomy is ok, but others isn't? If you haven't tasted that particular forbidden fruit yet (the apple of sodom) I can see why you struggle to find meaning in your wretched existence by spewing hate about others. A classic case of Freudian repression, I wonder when you'll have your own Ted Haggard moment?

JP: The question arises however – how can we ban homosexuality when some men may be born with a homosexual orientation and can only find sexual satisfaction in anal sex with another man?

CH: Good question, the fact is you can't and you shouldn't. What goes on between consenting adults is non of your nosey parker business. To police sexual conduct is to engage in exactly the kind of moral fascism that the founders of the US sought to escape from.

JP: We could ask a similar question: How can we ban pedophilia when some men may be born with a pedophilic orientation and can only find sexual satisfaction in sex with a child? The answer is that if therapy will not help them, we insist that pedophiles lead lives of celibacy and sexual frustration. The same should apply to homosexuals.

CH: Ah yes, equating homosexuality to pedophilia, the last refuge of the morally bankrupt. Here's the difference, in homosexual contact between adults, everyone can consent. Pedophilia by contrast is always rape (because of the age differences, and the fact that legally a minor cannot consent. However, it is interesting that you would be so appalled by pedophillia given that marriage of an adult male to a child bride (not to mention overt endorsement of polygamy) is common in the bible.

JP: In conclusion, the ban on anal intercourse between men is God’s will and therefore in my opinion needs no further explanation.

CH: No problem, but before you sound off about the evils of homosexuality based on the bible, you might do well to recall what Jesus said when he encountered a mob preparing to stone to death an adulterous woman;

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone'" John 8:7

But then, yours is an older God than that of the new Testament, isn't it? One untempered by love for all mankind, one quite comfortable stoning children to death, meting out genocide, or simply torturing Job to see if he would crack. It's a pre-medieval god, with a pre-medeival morality. You are welcome to him.

Adam Shajnfeld said...

JP, again, you ignore all of my points. I am not doubting that there exists an aids epidemic. You just haven't demonstrated at all why we are justified in killing homosexuals.

You ignored that many heterosexuals engage in anal sex. You ignore that safe sex prevents transmission of AIDS. You ignore that there are many health epidemics, such as obesity, that we would never proscribe death for. You ignore that allowing people to kill each other, in situations where their behavior, if reckless carries a risk of harm only to consensual partners, sets a terrible precedent, as it would allow anyone to kill you, or any other person for that matter, if they dislike what you are doing, even if it doesn't harm them or others. You ignore the boxing problem (why not kill boxers...what they do is sometimes very harmful to each other). You ignore the fact that there are millions of homosexuals who don't have AIDS, who practice safe sex, and who will never get AIDS, all of whom could still be killed.

Either respond to the points, or I will just give up and let the readers judge for themselves what to make of your consistently irrelevant and non-responsive points.

Anonymous said...

>Because the rectum is designed to hold feces and not to receive a penis, the walls of the rectum are thinner, dryer and more rigid than the walls of the vagina. This makes anal intercourse an ideal way to transmit disease and infection


>I am not talking about outlawing religions. Anal sex is not a religion. It's a filthy and dangerous habit.


May I point out to you that anal sex between man & woman IS PERMITTED in Halachah.
It states so explicitely in the Talmud,Rambam & Shulchan Aruch.
It's not recommended BUT IT'S CERTAINLY ALLOWED!
After all you have written about the filth of anal sex & its spreading of diseases what do do you have to say about your precious new found religion?

jewish philosopher said...

Hi Cameron, I was looking forward to your input on this. May I just ask you, however, if Jewish ethics are so aweful, why do Orthodox Jewish communities have almost zero violent crime, substance abuse and, I might add, HIV? And why has approximately half of humanity attempted to immitate us? Maybe we're doing something right.

Man on woman anal sex probably isn't the healthiest thing in the world; plenty of women get infections that way. However the woman on the receiving end has no penis. She can't so easily go and infect anyone else. Plus most women don't have that many partners. Gay men are custom designed to generate disease, and they do.

As I emphasized repeatedly in my post, I am in favor of death for male homosexuals purely because that is God's will. I am merely pointing out that as an added bonus, such a policy would have clear public health value. Let's say we would adopt the Saudi law of death for homosexuality. How many homosexuals have actually been put to death in the Kingdom? As far as anyone knows, very few. Yet it seems to be enough to reduce AIDS to a minimal level. Let's say, proportionally, the US would behead 10 homosexuals per year, and thereby save 10,000 people from dying of AIDS. That doesn't sound inhumane to me. In fact, it's a crime not to do it.

Anonymous said...

JP
I hope your "educated" guess as to which is the right religion or philosophy is better than your guess as to who wrote the above comment!

Adam Shajnfeld said...

"May I just ask you, however, if Jewish ethics are so aweful, why do Orthodox Jewish communities have almost zero violent crime, substance abuse and, I might add, HIV? And why has approximately half of humanity attempted to immitate us? Maybe we're doing something right."

Completely unresponsive. His poiont was that you, JP, are wrong, and you yourself implied that Judaism was disgusting. You said that anal sex was filthy and disgusting. Judaism allows it. Thus, Judaism allows filthy and disgusting behavior. Whether or not there are nice things about Judaism is irrelevant. You should learn more about Judaism before you make statements about what is and is not disgusting.

JP, on your logic, why not behead drug users, overeaters, and smokers?

jewish philosopher said...

The point I am trying to make in my post is this:

For about the past 40 years, gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transsexuals have been trying to convince Americans that they are exactly like anyone else, except that they have a slightly different lifestyle and the only reason they have been hated and persecuted is because of irrational bigotry and this is similar to the way Jews have been treated in many places. At this point, they seem to have nearly succeeded in convincing the public of this.

What I would like to say is that:

I personally as an Orthodox Jew am not against anyone’s lifestyle, race, orientation or ethnicity. I am against one very specific type of behavior that is prohibited by God.

And second of all, I want to point out that bitter experience has proven that this particular behavior is highly dangerous and even for purely practical reasons should have been and should still be suppressed. I believe that this demonstrates the divine wisdom of Judaism, which originated this ban.

Adam Shajnfeld said...

And if an AIDS cure is found, what will your point be then? How you going to argue that the ban is still rational?

Your only point should be that the Bible prohibits it. Don't guess about whether it is good policy, good science, or consistent with the fact that we don't punish overeating or boxers with death. The Bible does not claim that the ban is grounded on safety concerns. In fact, safe sex, as I have argued countless times, and you have simply ignored, prevents the risk of transmission.

Stick with what the Torah says, not your own, unsupported, inconsistent interpretation.

jewish philosopher said...

Human nature seems to be that people don't always use condoms. Have you ever tried one? They aren't too comfortable. That's not the solution.

Overeating and boxing are also prohibited by Judaism, as is anything unhealthy. Why not with death? An architect can tell you that removing a certain wall will make a building a less beautiful, however moving a different wall will cause the entire structure to collapse. God, who created us, knows which actions are smaller mistakes and which are complete catastrophes. Sure, a fool can ignore an architect's advice, but the results may be unfortunate.

Anonymous said...

>Human nature seems to be that people don't always use condoms. Have you ever tried one? They aren't too comfortable.

Have you? You seem to be talking from experience.
Don't you know that's strictly prohibited by Halacha?

You tried to wiggle out of addressing the issue I(not Cameron)raised of the permissiblity of anal sex between man & woman in Halacha.
How does Halachah allow such a digusting act! (according to you,& a rectum is a rectum whether it's a man's or a woman's)
(BTW,I am as straight as they come.)
But as Adam said above,one doesn't really expect a coherent answer from you.
You just write a meaningless phrase or cliche & there the matter ends. Thats because you don't have anything meaningful to say.

Adam Shajnfeld said...

People don't always use condoms. I agree with that. Not sure how that makes killing homosexuals the right idea.

For the millions of homosexuals that do use condoms, and thus pose a negligible risk of transmitting disease, you say kill them all. Doesn't make much sense.

And, as I said before, you have no idea why homosexuality is prohibited by the Bible. Don't just make up answers.

chaim said...

i have lost all the rspect i had for you
you would actually murder your own child if asked so by god?
you are either deranged or a liar
hopefully its the later

jewish philosopher said...

Adam, I have no doubt that every commandment of the Torah has endless benefits and meanings on all levels, physically, mentally and spiritually and whatever we can imagine is surely only scratching the surface. However that does not exempt us from trying to understand and appreciate what some of those benefits are. Maimonides and many other rabbis have attempted to do so. Recently, the Torah's commandment to refrain from homosexuality and to execute those who do engage in it has come under intense criticism as being barbaric, primitive and hateful. I have attempted to show in this post that this is very far from being the case and in fact these commandments are prime examples of the Torah's great wisdom and concern for the welfare of humanity.

If, dear Adam, I have failed to convince you, I can only say one more thing: Too bad.

Chaim, twice every day a Jew declares: "Hear Israel! The Lord is our God!" By doing so, he accepts upon himself to be loyal to God and to do whatever God may ask of him, however large the sacrifice may be. There have indeed been documented cases where Jews have had to slaughter their own children rather than allow them to be baptized and we should aspire to that level of commitment.

Cameron said...

JP: The point I am trying to make in my post is this:

For about the past 40 years, gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transsexuals have been trying to convince Americans that they are exactly like anyone else, except that they have a slightly different lifestyle and the only reason they have been hated and persecuted is because of irrational bigotry and this is similar to the way Jews have been treated in many places.

CH: For about 40 years gays and lesbians have been fighting against small minded bigots who think they should be put to death merely for who they love. Oh wait, that would be you. The good news is they are winning.

JP: What I would like to say is that:

I personally as an Orthodox Jew am not against anyone’s lifestyle, race, orientation or ethnicity. I am against one very specific type of behavior that is prohibited by God.

CH: You advocated the death penalty for homosexuals based on a few lines from Leviticus, yet I don't see you endorsing slavery despite it's ratification by the very same passages. So, either admit that to remain consistent you support the taking of slaves, the stoning of adulterers, and the exile of those who sleep with women having their period, or admit that you are a moral hypocrite who picks and chooses which of his predjudices to enforce with biblical passages and what can be safely ignored as anachronistic.

JP: And second of all, I want to point out that bitter experience has proven that this particular behavior is highly dangerous and even for purely practical reasons should have been and should still be suppressed.

CH: Would that be bitter personal experience? Did he not give you a reach around as promised? I have to laugh, you start your post with a beefcake picture, then boast confidently about your own physical prowess in your comments, while railing against the evils of male-on-male sodomy - all of which is very gay in a Ted Haggard Freudian repression way. Me thinks thou dost protest too much and that if you gave in to your temptations for some man-on-man action you'd feel better.

JP: I believe that this demonstrates the divine wisdom of Judaism, which originated this ban.

CH: Circular reasoning. Judaic divine wisdom says we should kill gays. Killing gays would be good. Therefore, this demonstrates the divine wisdome of Judaism. I'm amazed you have enough brain power to keep breathing.

jewish philosopher said...

Cameron, are trying to say that you want be my slave? Please email some pics and we'll talk.

Jack's Shack said...

Dude, something is loose inside that skull of yours. The Essenes died out years ago.

Henry said...

This is a really good idea, JP, but what method do you suggest?

Hanging, drawing and quartering was popular in England in the olden days. You could revive it - a good spectacle and these days the broadcasting rights would be worth a quite few bucks. But there are a lot of these, vermin, as you call them, to be dealt with, so you will also need to build extermination camps. You might have trouble getting hold of a supply of Zyklon B, though, and nerve gases are a bit dodgy.

HANGING, DRAWING AND QUARTERING
EXTERMINATION

Seriously, you seem so obsessional about this that one must wonder about your own sexuality. It is usually self-hating gays who go on about homosexuality with this kind of vehemence. Are you sure you didn't pick that photograph because you found it titillating?

jewish philosopher said...

Beheading is the preferred method.

Henry said...

Beheading in public, I hope. What do you reckon the world-wide broadcasting rights are worth? Could be a money-spinner.

By the way, how do you prove people have been indulging in the wrong sort of sexual acts? Don't you need a witness or two? And isn't this usually done in private? I suppose you could get the evidence by torture but courts are not too keen on accepting it.

jewish philosopher said...

There should be one eyewitness in order to get a conviction, however possibly in some cases DNA testing would be sufficient.

I agree that live broadcasts would be a nice touch.

Henry said...

What method of beheading do you advocate? If you want a high throughput, the guillotine is very efficient. Axe is inefficient and the axeman often misses first time. When Mary, Queen of Scots, was executed at Fotheringay Castle in 1587, a clumsy headsman gave her three strokes without quite managing to sever her head. The headsman then had to saw though the skin and gristle with his sheath knife before the job could be regarded as complete. The profound, protracted groan Mary gave when the axe first hit left the horrified witnesses in no doubt that her pain was excruciating.

In France, in the days of the guillotine, some of the condemned were asked to blink their eyes if they were still conscious after the knife fell. Some of the condemned were asked to blink if they were still conscious. Reportedly, their heads blinked for up to 30 seconds after decapitation. How much of this was voluntary and how much due to reflex nerve action is speculation.

Antoine Lavoisier, the French chemist who lived between 1743 and 1794, was caught up in the revolution and faced beheading. He asked friends to observe closely as he would continue blinking as long as possible after being killed. He was reported to have blinked for 15 seconds after decapitation. But the story of Antoine Lavoisier's last heroic service for science has been reported many times but unfortunately appears to have no basis in fact. It is not given in any contemporary account we have been able to find, nor in the standard accounts of his life and death. As pointed out above, however, there have been attempts to ascertain if a severed head retains consciousness. The most reliable account appears to be that the whole thing lasts twenty-five to thirty seconds.

jewish philosopher said...

The beheading should be done by sword. The condemned will be shackled hand and foot and made to kneel before the executioner, who will deliver the coup de grace.

Incidentally, minors over 13 will likewise be subject to the death penalty, which will carried out immediately following a conviction and without appeal.

kevin meredith said...

don't knock it until you have tried it there's nothing like a big fat cock in you bum. if fact you could kill them while in the act that way they would die happy

jewish philosopher said...

Kevin, I think you should really speak for yourself!

kevin meredith said...

i speak to myself all the time that's because i am nuts. just like you

Henry said...

If you use a swordsperson it will take a long time to deal with them all as you country has been over-run by homos and nutters. The executioners would have to be trained as well. And if they miss, they could be sued by the intended executionee or their family, also there are health and safety implications like they have all got aids and you don't want their infected blood flying around all over the place. This needs to be thought through very carefully.

But what on earth is wrong with putting them in concentration camps on minimum rations, working them hard and gassing them when they are too weak to do any more work? It must surely be the most cost-effective way of doing it.

Have you contacted Wackenhut? They are the experts professionals when it comes to punishment in the USA, are they not? They could probably come up with some useful suggestions and it would be a good new line of business for them so would support your proposals. I am sure they could run up an efficient chain of concentration camps with gas chambers.

jewish philosopher said...

Henry, do I detect some hint of sarcasm?

Henry said...

I thought your piece was a spoof. Good parody of nutty religious fundamentalism which should help to promote tolerance, though actually I happen to think that penetrative sex between men really is a very bad idea so you should not be holding up the idea to ridicule like you have - it is not in very good taste to put up stuff like this as a joke.

Anonymous said...

Link

J.L. said...

Isn't one of the commandments "Thou shalt NOT KILL"?

Imagine that you are anally raped by a man: by your logic you should also be put to death since you have engaged in homosexual sex, even though it is against your will.

Quoting your response here: "And you, my little Anonymous, have no concept of loyalty or discipline. Ours is not to reason why, ours is but to do and die."

Ours is to reason why. Otherwise you are powerless, a mere puppet. Loyalty and discipline are no excuse for killing. After all, there were thousands of loyal and disciplined Nazis manning the gas chambers at Buchenwald and Auschwitz.

Judging by the other comments here, and your response to them, you seem incapable of making this very simple link: it is wrong to kill people because of their beliefs or lifestyle.

You should be ashamed.

jewish philosopher said...

The Bible correctly translated says "You will not murder". Murder means taking the life of an innocent person.

A rape victim is innocent of wrong doing and is not punished. See Deut. 22:25.

The Bible advocates a death penalty for many life style choices, such as Sabbath violation and idolatry. As a believing Jew, I believe that is God's will.

No, I'm not ashamed and I am very proud of my beliefs.

Anonymous said...

"The Bible advocates a death penalty for many life style choices, such as Sabbath violation and idolatry. As a believing Jew, I believe that is God's will."

So you'll be taking your Uzi down to Wal-Mart and asking who worked the Saturday shift?

Gary McGath said...

Your belief in a so-called holy book doesn't give you the right to commit murder.

Anonymous said...

You should be ashamed of yourself, how many more people have to die because of your superstitions?


It's the same the whole world 'round, you're a microcosm of a larger problem of religious ass-hattery, whether it is Imams executing gays or Jews railing against "teh homos!!!1", religious people make me sick.

jewish philosopher said...

Sabbath observance applies only to Jew and Jewish courts haven't put anyone to death in almost 2000 years.

I am not advocating murder or hatred. I am merely advocating an amendment to the United States Constitution making sodomy a capital offence. This in not very much unlike laws now on the books against drug dealers, prostitution or polygamy.

Anonymous said...

"Sabbath observance applies only to Jew and Jewish courts haven't put anyone to death in almost 2000 years."

Excellent. That means because I'm not a Jew, and don't believe in the Bible, I can sodomise whomever is agreeable to it? Consider it done.

"I am not advocating murder or hatred. I am merely advocating an amendment to the United States Constitution making sodomy a capital offence. This in not very much unlike laws now on the books against drug dealers, prostitution or polygamy."

Hmmm...It is very much unlike laws about drug dealing, prositution, and polygamy. None of those are capital offences. And putting to death sodomites (say, between four and six percent of the male population) is very much mass murder. Remember a certain other govenment-sanctioned mass-murder in recent history. Hardly worthu of the word "merely".

By the way, looking at the photo atop your post, you have excellent taste in men.

jewish philosopher said...

"sodomites (say, between four and six percent of the male population)"

I think you'd find that percentage dropping considerably the day after the new law passes. I think we'd be looking at a dozen beheadings a year tops.

Anonymous said...

Sweet mother of god you are fucked up, JP

Anonymous said...

I mean honestly, what the hell is your problem? I think I only read this site to see how fucked up you are.

Anonymous said...

I just got a message from God telling me that you are fucked up and should stop unless you want to bring a plague on the earth.

Anonymous said...

"sodomites (say, between four and six percent of the male population)"

I think you'd find that percentage dropping considerably the day after the new law passes. I think we'd be looking at a dozen beheadings a year tops."


Murder is already a capital offence; one which is much more difficult to commit, and to prove, than sodomy. From January to September this year, over fifty have been executed.

You'd be killing not just gays, but many straight couples, men and women. And it's entirely possible to live an active gay life without practcising sodomy, so you wouldn't necessarily address the so-called crime.

Is that really what you want?

jewish philosopher said...

Saudi Arabia only beheads maybe 10 homosexuals a decade, so I figure proportionally in America it would be 10 a year. I think you might be surprised at the educational value of public beheadings carried out immediately after sentencing.

I'm only referring to male on male sodomy.

I want all of mankind to obey God's sacred laws.

Anonymous said...

I can't improve on my previous posts so I just want to reiterate what a fucking asshole you are, JP. This has got to be a joke, because no sane adult would write this shit. I would use the word "fuck" again if I could think of a context.

jewish philosopher said...

Anon, I appreciate your thoughtful comments.

But just for the record, I am strongly against fucking anyone's asshole. That is the main point of this post.

Krystalline Apostate said...

You are proof that religion warps people's brains.
Your commentary on your willingness to sacrifice your own son, as per command (in emulation of Abram) proves this. You seem to forget, that prior to Isaac's birth, Abram's 2nd personality predicted he would make a covenant not only w/Isaac, but Isaac's seed.
It doesn’t take a lot of medical knowledge to realize that a community of millions of men who are randomly having anal sex with each other is the ideal breeding ground for sexual diseases and for the development of new, more dangerous, ones.
Newsflash: this can easily apply to heterosexual behavior - the sexual revolution occurred primarily because the clap & the syph were curable via popping a pill.
I want all of mankind to obey God's sacred laws.
At gunpoint, or swordpoint, no matter what?
You're hate-filled invective makes me wonder if you'll be pulling a Haggard sometime soon.
Here's a link for ya:
http://www.hatecrime.org/subpages/hitler/hitler.html
Do seek therapy soon.

jewish philosopher said...

Newsflash for you: Gays caused the AIDS pandemic and about 25 million deaths so far. However as an atheist in the proud tradition of Stalin and Mao, I’m sure human life has no value to you. The only thing important is to protect the right to sodomize.

Henry said...

As a matter of fact, this is not the case. The origin of AIDS is unknown but it came from Africa and one possibility is that it was caused by species-jumping, perhaps through eating or handling "bushmeat". The largest number of cases is in Africa, where there are very high proportions of the population infected through heterosexual sex and through the use of unhygienic medical procedures.

That said, I do not advocate penetrative sex between males, "safely" or otherwise. At the very least, it shows a depressing lack of imagination. But to suggest that they should be beheaded does nothing for your credibility.

Krystalline Apostate said...

Newsflash for you: Gays caused the AIDS pandemic and about 25 million deaths so far.
You have no proof whatsoever of that. Closest speculation is what Henry provided. Tainted simian meat, if memory serves. Don't forget that syphillis was the 'scourge', alternately known as the pox, prior to the advent of AIDS.
However as an atheist in the proud tradition of Stalin and Mao, I’m sure human life has no value to you.
Newsflash for you: I'm not a communist.
"I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left." - Thatcher
I obviously value life a great deal more than you do: I won't behead people based on my dislikes & a book written by bronze-age savages.
The only thing important is to protect the right to sodomize.
You tell me: who else put homosexuals to death, in the 20th CE? I think you need a history lesson. Remember the pink armbands?
Bigot.

Henry said...

Don't you think it is time you removed the titillating picture from this blog?

jewish philosopher said...

Actually, that guy isn't nearly as hot as I am.

Henry said...

I would rather not know how hot or otherwise you are.

jewish philosopher said...

No sense of humor Henry?

Anonymous said...

Pity this thread has ground to a halt.

joebaum said...

JP great blog!, keep up the good work!!

onionsoupmix said...

You don't hate anyone's lifestyle, you just want to kill people because the Torah says that's the right punishment. So to be consistent here,if your daughter is raped, you will just want a fine for her loss of virginity? No prosecution, right?

jewish philosopher said...

So?

000646 said...

Do you beleive that if a jewish man rapes a non jewish girl we should kill the girl because a takala was brought about by her as per the rambam?

jewish philosopher said...

There are many Jewish men married to non-Jewish woman, however I haven't heard about any murder contracts being taken out against those women. Apparently, we don't do that today.

000646 said...

jewish philosohper,

Yes you dont do it nowadays for technical reasons (there is no sanhedrin).
However in an ideal world (as you beleive it will be when moshiach comes) would you say that if a jewish man rapes a non jewish girl, we should kill the girl because a takala was brought about by her as per the rambam,
or would you say that the rapist should be brought to justice?

jewish philosopher said...

In an ideal world, there will be no crimes like that.

000646 said...

But you beleive nowadays ideally (if not for the technical problem of not having a sanhedrin) we should kill the girl, and that when this was done (when there was a sanhedrin) it was just and proper to kill her?

jewish philosopher said...

I haven't looked into it too much, however I think you'll find that not that much killing ever went on in the Jewish community. "A Sanhedrin which killed once in 7 years was known as a cruel court."

jewish philosopher said...

If you're interested in a religion with a lot of killing, you might like to check out Islam. Those guys really get into it.

Anonymous said...

JP,

I'm confused about your quote regarding due process and a trial for homosexuals. Where in the Bible is this declared?

It seems to me that God commands us to kill homosexuals; end of discussion. While I do think we can't assume that just because someone acts gay they are, but if we went to a gay pride parade and actually witnessed two men having sex, shouldn't we spill their blood on them right then and there?

jewish philosopher said...

The Talmud goes into all the details.

Anonymous said...

Do share where it goes into details about an actual death penalty case for לא תשכב זכר. Looks more like a case of להלחה ולא למעשה to me.

jewish philosopher said...

Leviticus 20:13

Anonymous said...

No, that's where the Torah states the prohibition. Where in the Talmud does it go into details of an actual case of two homosexuals being put to death? I'd love to open that up and look it over. I've got a full set at home. Again, looks more like a case of להלחה ולא למעשה to me.

jewish philosopher said...

It may have never happened in ancient times that Jews did that. Same thing with sex with animals.

Anonymous said...

I'm pretty sure there are a few places where it either directly states that two males Jews were having sex or infers it. And yet no death sentence. So nu? It happened back then. Even with Jews. But they never killed anyone for it. And you want to pass that responsibility out of the hands of a בית דין צדק? So goyim will do a better job with halacha than our Tanai'im and Amorai'im?

Anonymous said...

I'd like to point out that your study about gay men having sex with women is, more accurately, a study about straight men having unprotected sex with good, upstanding, self respecting gays.

Anonymous said...

I can totally imagine JP in a concentration camp alongside some homosexual prisoners, saying, "Now, YOU deserve to be here!"